Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Joey66]

That's still the case now. In large parts, the key is agility, so if jobs dry up in one region, it's relatively easy to move to different regions. If jobs dry up in one industry or skills area, it's possible to re-train for new areas.

Things like the free movement of people therefore is key to that first thing, and something the EU have got spot on, but domestically we haven't, as I've said many times, our local authorities are not empowered to cope with large movement of people.

In the re-training side of things, we still focus almost exclusively on <21 education, and whilst that's important, if we believe the projections that we will have 3-4-5 different careers in our lifetimes, the emphasis surely has to shift on constant re-learning. This is a huge problem, as there are chunks of society that probably don't value learning a whole lot, and quite probably don't have the skills to be always learning (knowing how to learn if you like). So even if the means to learn exist, there remains a gap, and that's manifesting itself in Brexit, Trump and so on.

Rest assured though, leaving the EU or voting in a Trump isn't going to help rectify any of the above.

DP today the judgement was only about invoking article 50 by parliament nothing else Labour will vote for it you can debate in Parliament all you want get any Brexit plan enshrined in a bill , the what happens when the EU negotiators just say NO?
More uncertainty?
Undoing the EU / common market act is being put before parliament anyway input across the house can accept or deny that bill?
Brexit will go through Parliament I do agree with the judgement as I feel the cross Party committee with Hillary Benn would not over look anything negative to our future in trade!

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

They carried it on though that's the point no trade union laws repealed by Thatcher!

Yes, fair point - bliar & brown pandered to corporate interests. The abolition of clause IV was a clear warning sign of the direction they wanted to take us.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Not audacity. I was in the GEC meetings during that turbulent phase, I didn't read about it, I was physically there. Thatcher was long gone, but your mate Gordon Brown took away the legs from under a once great and giant company. The senior people within this company know what happened and exactly who was to blame......

How was the complete mismanagement of GEC / Marconi down to Gordon Brown?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

They carried it on though that's the point no trade union laws repealed by Thatcher!

Our industrial base being decimated has nothing to do with Labour not undoing legislation relating to the Unions.

 

[peteblue]

Industry has changed, it hasn't been destroyed. If you look at the manufacturing that is thriving in Britain it's in the high end of things around university towns such as Cambridge. What has changed is that we no longer offer much in the low-skill side of manufacturing, in large part because trying to compete on cost with China, Mexico et al would be madness, so we've moved up to compete more on quality.

I think I'm right in saying, for instance, that the manufacturing sector has seen faster growth in masters degree holders than any industry in the UK.

The challenge, both politically and socially, is in providing work for those with few skills, and I feel that this notion that we should have a manufacturing industry to provide work for such people is rather fanciful.

It's the challenge of knowing what battles and on which battlefields to engage in. Unfortunately we cannot give advanced skills to the whole population because many are not capable enough intellectually. But we can give broader skills to people to allow them to be productive rather than assembly type skills which will eventually vanish via robots anyway...

 

[abelard]

That's still the case now. In large parts, the key is agility, so if jobs dry up in one region, it's relatively easy to move to different regions. If jobs dry up in one industry or skills area, it's possible to re-train for new areas.

Things like the free movement of people therefore is key to that first thing, and something the EU have got spot on, but domestically we haven't, as I've said many times, our local authorities are not empowered to cope with large movement of people.

In the re-training side of things, we still focus almost exclusively on <21 education, and whilst that's important, if we believe the projections that we will have 3-4-5 different careers in our lifetimes, the emphasis surely has to shift on constant re-learning. This is a huge problem, as there are chunks of society that probably don't value learning a whole lot, and quite probably don't have the skills to be always learning (knowing how to learn if you like). So even if the means to learn exist, there remains a gap, and that's manifesting itself in Brexit, Trump and so on.

Rest assured though, leaving the EU or voting in a Trump isn't going to help rectify any of the above.

Education, for all ages, will be even more vital in the years to come. Unfortunately, UK universities, among the world's best, will suffer considerably from having had their country taken back from them, after already being forced to weather the blow of austerity.

This is one area where the government needs to play a constructive role - not just gutting state funding and subsidizing a debt bubble so kids can go to Trump University instead, like in the US.

Beyond that, given how divided and partisan the Anglosphere has become, and how vapid mass media and what's replaced it on the internet has become, a space where people from all backgrounds could meet to discuss history, culture, human affairs, or whatever, and actually get to know each other, could be an enormous social asset. it's really disgraceful how the money that used to enable this is shuffled off to Luxembourg, and South Dakota, and the Caymans, with only token objections from the political class.

 

[peteblue]

How was the complete mismanagement of GEC / Marconi down to Gordon Brown?

GEC was not mismanaged. Gordon brown introduced a tax on telecommunications operating companies known as 3G licences, by way of a bidding competition. He took out £Billions which meant that the operators cut back on equipment purchase and infrastructure. Marconi, as GEC now was, had it's customer base completely removed almost overnight and this single act resulted in it's eventual demise......

 

[Toffeelover]

Because of the apparent decision to remove ourselves from the Single market, the fall in value of Sterling, higher inflation reducing consumer purchasing power and reduced corporate profitability.

Add to that the fall in future onward investment and the opportunity cost of government and business having to focus on leaving Europe rather than growing businesses and the economy.

I could carry on, but you'll get the point.....

I disagree, you are basically a nimby! You want to retain the status quo irrespective of the not so desirable aspects of staying in the EU. You side stepped my questions earlier on the future of the EU which in part is what your vote would contribute to.

You totally ignore that there could be very good prospects and opportunities outside the EU.

 

[peteblue]

That's a new spin on it Pete, it was Gordon Brown not Lord Simpson and Mayo who brought about the demise of GEC/ Marconi?

That's correct.....and I knew and worked with all the players involved......

 

[Toffeelover]

Because of the apparent decision to remove ourselves from the Single market, the fall in value of Sterling, higher inflation reducing consumer purchasing power and reduced corporate profitability.

Add to that the fall in future onward investment and the opportunity cost of government and business having to focus on leaving Europe rather than growing businesses and the economy.

I could carry on, but you'll get the point.....

That is not saying we are losing billions only that it is possible. Too many assumptions.

 

[peteblue]

In fairness Pete, thatcher had decimated industry to an almost FUBAR state long before then. Yes she'd been gone for 13-14yrs, but her idealogy & legacy tore the arse out of the manufacturing sector.

Had we had an economic policy similar to the German's mittelstand instead of being over-reliant on financial & services then I'd have imagined our exit from the EU would've been a lot smoother.

Oh I agree that Thatcher had previously run down many industries, and for political purposes. But the article that was being quoted mentioned GEC which occurred under Blair and effectively presided over by Brown. I have no problem in blaming the culprits but let's get it right......

 

[abelard]

I disagree, you are basically a nimby! You want to retain the status quo irrespective of the not so desirable aspects of staying in the EU. You side stepped my questions earlier on the future of the EU which in part is what your vote would contribute to.

You totally ignore that there could be very good prospects and opportunities outside the EU.

That is not saying we are losing billions only that it is possible. Too many assumptions.

 

[Toffeelover]

The audacity of a Thatcher supporter blaming Blair or Brown for the destruction of British industry .

So Blair and especially Brown had no hand in undermining the economy and industry?

 

[Joey66]

Yes, fair point - bliar & brown pandered to corporate interests. The abolition of clause IV was a clear warning sign of the direction they wanted to take us.

I always classed Blair as a labour PM wearing a blue rosette only if Jon Smith had not sadly died Blair would have never seen office as PM!
Ifs and buts , but no Iraq war maybe?

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

I always classed Blair as a labour PM wearing a blue rosette only if Jon Smith had not sadly died Blair would have never seen office as PM!

But the other day you said you were a centrist and a socialist, the two things Blair claimed to be. Surely he's your policital idol?