Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Pienaar's gloves]

Very good article, thanks - would advise as many as possible to read it

We're in the age of post-reason now. Stop peddling facts and/or well reasoned arguments, they're dead.

 

[Barnfred 55]

The majority now are against Brexit according to the latest poll

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...cle-50-second-referendum-latest-a7395811.html

Too late now ladies and gents.

Did you actually look at the poll itself on BMGs website, or just The Independants interpretation of it. Not all the papers are so blatantly anti EEC Esk!! The poll was made up of just over 1500 people and had an accuracy range of +/- 2.5%. The results are actually more in favour of Brexit than the various polls undertaken the day before the referendum. We found out how wrong they were.

 

[abelard]

They won't take any notice. Unfortunately even an economic disaster in the coming years won't change the beliefs of some on here.

it will reinforce them. the UK has already been through one economic disaster over the last ten years.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Why are you Pro EU?

Esk has summed it up nicely here:

Because of the apparent decision to remove ourselves from the Single market, the fall in value of Sterling, higher inflation reducing consumer purchasing power and reduced corporate profitability.

Add to that the fall in future onward investment and the opportunity cost of government and business having to focus on leaving Europe rather than growing businesses and the economy.

I could carry on, but you'll get the point.....

The uncertainty was always going to lead to problems, how are we supposed to be able to pay more towards social security if all the big businesses are leaving? Less tax coming in equals less money to invest and bolster services. If we leave the single market it will be a vicious circle until the other EU states feel they can relax the choker knowing that others that might want to leave have seen the consequences of such an act.

I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that comes from the EU but I like to refrain from cutting my nose to spite my face, especially when it directly effects my pocket. We did well to just stay above water after the banking collapse, why would I vote to go headlong into a recession?

 

[Brennan]

Esk has summed it up nicely here:



The uncertainty was always going to lead to problems, how are we supposed to be able to pay more towards social security if all the big businesses are leaving? Less tax coming in equals less money to invest and bolster services. If we leave the single market it will be a vicious circle until the other EU states feel they can relax the choker knowing that others that might want to leave have seen the consequences of such an act.

I don't agree with a lot of the stuff that comes from the EU but I like to refrain from cutting my nose to spite my face, especially when it directly effects my pocket. We did well to just stay above water after the banking collapse, why would I vote to go headlong into a recession?

To take back control of course !

 

[Barnfred 55]

Was that the one that looks like Peter Griffin from 'Family Guy'? Used to start with that lad gettin dragged by the lughole into his house?

Don't know as I've never watched it mate.

It was in the middle of the cold war era and was about a guy who used to drive a tank around the neighbourhood to protect against the Ruskies. Probably wouldn't be considered PC these days but from what I recall it was hilarious. I was only about 12 at the time like.

 

[The Esk]

Ha Ha. Neale from Chipping Norton has been watching too much "Wait till your father get's home". Where's Sergeant Whittaker?

For those of you on here too young to remember this was a brilliantly funny American cartoon series from the 70s.lol

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

To take back control of course !

 

[Barnfred 55]

That's the one. Sergeant Whittaker. She was brilliant.

Just googled it and there's a few full episodes on youtube. Something keep me from boredom during the next International break.

 

[peteblue]

perhaps already posted, but: http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/10/18/brexit-death-of-british-business/

Very well written article, containing many mistakes but at least highlighting how the EU were setting up to do down the Uk as a financial centre because we were not in the Euro. Oh and absolutely no mention of the Governments involvement in the destruction of UK industry under Blair and Brown......

 

[abelard]

Very well written article, containing many mistakes but at least highlighting how the EU were setting up to do down the Uk as a financial centre because we were not in the Euro. Oh and absolutely no mention of the Governments involvement in the destruction of UK industry under Blair and Brown......

"How the UK got into this situation is told in detail by two books: Nicholas Comfort’s Surrender: How British Industry Gave Up The Ghost 1952-2012, which deals especially with the collapse of British manufacturing in the late twentieth century, and David Kynaston’s The City of London: Club No More: 1945-2000, which chronicles the corresponding failure of British financial institutions and their displacement by international competitors...Kynaston and Comfort are best read in tandem, and the cumulative impact of their histories is devastating.

The most telling chapters of Surrender are those dealing with the 1980s, 1990s, and early 2000s, because they give the lie to the claim that Margaret Thatcher as prime minister arrested and reversed Britain’s industrial decline. Some of the most damaging cases of British industrial collapse took place during and following her period of office, and are well described by Comfort. Among them was the implosion in 2004 of GEC, a sprawling engineering conglomerate and a rough British counterpart to GE as the UK’s market leader in power generation, industrial control systems, and defense electronics."

The next five paragraphs describe this process in detail, citing several other examples.

Very well written article, containing many mistakes but at least highlighting how the EU were setting up to do down the Uk as a financial centre because we were not in the Euro.

"As a member of the EU, Britain was able to prevent this, but outside the EU it will be highly vulnerable to further regulatory assaults from Brussels."

 

[Tubey]

lol

 

[The Esk]

Oh and absolutely no mention of the Governments involvement in the destruction of UK industry under Blair and Brown......

The audacity of a Thatcher supporter blaming Blair or Brown for the destruction of British industry .

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

The audacity of a Thatcher supporter blaming Blair or Brown for the destruction of British industry .

lol

It take revisionism to a whole new level.

 

[Barnfred 55]

This morning's press reaction to yesterday's High Court decision says an awful lot in my opinion.

It confirms for me that in fact the referendum result on June 23rd was not actually the voice and will of the majority of the people but rather it was the voice and will of the majority of the press.

Yes, I know many people wanted to leave the EU, but the question of why, what motivation was there and who provided that motivation is clear to see today.

Despite the ruling with huge clarity being nothing at all to do with Brexit per se, and most if not all politicians saying Brexit will go ahead, the dialogue from the right wing media chooses to ignore that and continues to peddle lies and untruths, this time not about Europe but about our very democracy and the impartialilty of the Courts.

In manifesting such lies and vitriol as they have today, they weaken further democracy and faith in the institutions that have served this country of ours so well for hundreds of years.

The media are not friends of democracy nor do they uphold the rule of law, nor our wonderful constitution built on legislation and case law. They, as ever, serve only their own very narrow interests and in doing so continue to alienate and remove large parts of the population from the truth, and their ability to make decisions and judgement on the truth rather than lies and propoganda.

Me again mate, just to put another balanced view to your post.

Completely agree with everything you say regarding the press. I've been a big critic of the British media for a long time. It's not that I don't think that they are entitled to a point of view, of course they are. It's the way they go about it I don't like plus the way they sit in their ivory tower judging everything and everybody they don't agree with, whilst self promoting themselves as some sort of defender of the people and public interest. Also agree that they are deflecting from the issue in question by having a pop at the legal system.

Where your argument falls down is the assumption that leave voters must have been influenced by the lies and propaganda spouted by the press and, in fairness, those idiots Farage and Boris. That's just a continuation of the popular post Brexit perception that leave voters must either be racists or uneducated, easily led lemmings incapable of making their own minds up. If you look at a cross section of the leave voters, you will see that they are heavily loaded with older/mature people, many of them retired, and from communities where you would expect them to be reasonably comfortable financially. These are not the sort of people who would be easily influenced and are, I imagine, more than capable of making up their own minds.

I'm not naïve enough to believe that there were not some voters influenced by the press, and indeed I'm sure that there must be a number of out and out racists who also voted to leave. But to counter this, I'm also equally sure that were a considerable number of remain voters who did so because they were influenced by the constant stream of scaremongers the Govt paraded in front of the camera's leading up to the referendum.

Swings and roundabouts.