Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Kurt.]

It's more like a melee than a joust tbh........

I learnt a long time ago Pete to not waste energy on things I have ...and never will have.... control over. Take Orgreave, of course there should be an enquiry... bit unless I'm voted in to a regime cloaked with secrecy and family ties my opinion remains as impotent as the next ordinary man in the street. Don't be fooled into thinking the establishment take any notice of us lesser people.

 

[The binman chronicles]

It's wrong to go against the people votes to be fair just because they don't agree.

I'm pro EU but I'm not saying let's stop brexit, as like you say it won the majority and I accept that even though I believe it is the wrong decision. However the government simply cannot be allowed to push through any deal without scrutiny.

That I think is key to why this is good news, I think a lot of people underestimated the effects of leaving the EU and I'm not so sure they would vote the same way again. So why not ensure that parliament agree on the brexit terms, sounds sensible to me...

 

[dandydan]

Think that's becoming abundantly clear. What's also clear that if they did veto article 50, it could become disasterous in helping UKIP become a viable option for a lot of people.

My hope is today slows the process down and we get a second referendum in 18 months. At which point people will have started to feel the economic downturn in their pocket. Then perhaps leaving may not seem quite so clever.

Then if remain wins and the leave side demand a third vote and get denied you still get a UKIP surge. The genie is out of the bottle, all parties but especially Labour need to box clever over this or pay the price come the next election.

 

[SNova]

I'm pro EU but I'm not saying let's stop brexit, as like you say it won the majority and I accept that even though I believe it is the wrong decision. However the government simply cannot be allowed to push through any deal without scrutiny.

That I think is key to why this is good news, I think a lot of people underestimated the effects of leaving the EU and I'm not so sure they would vote the same way again. So why not ensure that parliament agree on the brexit terms, sounds sensible to me...

Parliament is majority pro remain and will try to water down Brexit as much as possible. This seems to be the Ireland referendum all over again.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Think that's becoming abundantly clear. What's also clear that if they did veto article 50, it could become disasterous in helping UKIP become a viable option for a lot of people.

My hope is today slows the process down and we get a second referendum in 18 months. At which point people will have started to feel the economic downturn in their pocket. Then perhaps leaving may not seem quite so clever.

Totally spot on, this is my hope too. Although like Pete said we have to initiate article 50 first and if that is not reversible then we get into a chicken and egg scenario of how can we possibly decide if we don't know what we are voting for yet. The devil is in the detail with this!

 

[peteblue]

I learnt a long time ago Pete to not waste energy on things I have ...and never will have.... control over. Take Orgreave, of course there should be an enquiry... bit unless I'm voted in to a regime cloaked with secrecy and family ties my opinion remains as impotent as the next ordinary man in the street. Don't be fooled into thinking the establishment take any notice of us lesser people.

One of life's great lessons.......the establishment always wins......it's just that sometimes they don't............this will be one of them......

 

[dandydan]

Totally spot on, this is my hope too. Although like Pete said we have to initiate article 50 first and if that is not reversible then we get into a chicken and egg scenario of how can we possibly decide if we don't know what we are voting for yet. The devil is in the detail with this!

If there was a second leave vote would you demand a third?

 

[dandydan]

One of life's great lessons.......the establishment always wins......it's just that sometimes they don't............this will be one of them......

 

[Kurt.]

One of life's great lessons.......the establishment always wins......it's just that sometimes they don't............this will be one of them......

The difference this time is there are 17.4 million ordinary men in the street.

 

[peteblue]

Then if remain wins and the leave side demand a third vote and get denied you still get a UKIP surge. The genie is out of the bottle, all parties but especially Labour need to box clever over this or pay the price come the next election.

Lots of political careers will suffer because of this judgement. Politicians love it when they can throw stones from a safe distance,that option has now been taken away and quite a few might well be wishing that those judges had come up with a different result...........

 

[The binman chronicles]

If there was a second leave vote would you demand a third?

Isn't it pretty clear what I said on the matter? I'll recap for you:

I accept the result of the referendum but that doesn't give carte blanche to one person to decide on the outcome of the negotiations with third parties, this is why we have a democratic government. With any other policy it would be put before the commons to pass so why should this be any different seeing it's far more important.

If they can't agree due to vested interests being pro EU or far brexit, then we should have a 2nd referendum, but least we would have the actual details of what is going to happen because we can see what has been negotiated. The 1st one we had unrealistic claims from both sides, that's all we had to go on, so why would we need a third if it's basically a yay or nay on do you agree to these exit terms???

 

[dandydan]

Isn't it pretty clear what I said on the matter? I'll recap for you:

I accept the result of the referendum but that doesn't give carte blanche to one person to decide on the outcome of the negotiations with third parties, this is why we have a democratic government. With any other policy it would be put before the commons to pass so why should this be any different seeing it's far more important.

If they can't agree due to vested interests being pro EU or far brexit, then we should have a 2nd referendum, but least we would have the actual details of what is going to happen because we can see what has been negotiated. The 1st one we had unrealistic claims from both sides, that's all we had to go on, so why would we need a third if it's basically a yay or nay on do you agree to these exit terms???

Because people won't be happy either way, and if we can have one rerun why not another?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Lots of political careers will suffer because of this judgement. Politicians love it when they can throw stones from a safe distance,that option has now been taken away and quite a few might well be wishing that those judges had come up with a different result...........

All that matters is that Parliament and thus the populous will now be able to hear what Brexit mean Brexit actually means

People voted for the concept of removing the country from the EU, now the correct democratic process needs to decide exactly what that should look like

 

[The binman chronicles]

Because people won't be happy either way, and if we can have one rerun why not another?

True, nearly half one way or the other will be left upset. I would hope if there was a 2nd referendum (& that's a big IF as like others have said people did vote to exit and that should be actioned if the terms are sensible & I think MP's understand that) it would have to be cast iron with no ambiguity, the final step before signing the papers. Did anyone think that the Tory's would try to block the exit deal being discussed in the commons beforehand? I didn't think that was possible.

What's stopping the small band of tories doing a deal that suits their own self interests, this is why we have votes for laws to be passed to prevent that kind of thing.

A lot of people voted to leave on the basis of immigration, but if we keep the common market and free movement then what about those people who decided to exit, has there wishes been actioned?

If we brexit so be it but I would at least like it to go through and be approved by half of MP's first.

 

[Anders_Limpar]

Then if remain wins and the leave side demand a third vote and get denied you still get a UKIP surge. The genie is out of the bottle, all parties but especially Labour need to box clever over this or pay the price come the next election.

I agree. Tough times ahead and it's hard to see the right path.

Saw Nadine Dorris on Peston saying that Labour will loose northern votes if they don't address people's 'legitimate' concerns on immigration. In areas like Sunderland with only a 3% immigrant population, surly labour should be educating not pandering. But hard to see how - particularly in the aftermath of this referendum.