Current Affairs EU In or Out

[tsubaki]

I hope that this Uber ruling isnt extended to delivery blokes.

The model is to have a core of salaried staff, admin etc obvs, and the HGV drivers. Then a small army of flexible owner drivers who effectively choose what they want to deliver, within reason.

Seems to work, with gazillions of parcels every day being dropped off.

Thats the model, if it doesnt suit you, dont sign up is my opinion.

The difference with Uber and them is that Uber drivers were blatantly employees.

 

[tsubaki]

Wouldn't surprise me to see it getting overturned* on appeal, meself.










*by either a 'Govt-friendly' judge with 'ambitions' , or one about to 'retire'...

It wouldn't be a surprise, but the kicking their case got was so comprehensive - they were actually called liars in the judgement - that it would have to be a very good retirement package indeed for it to get overturned.

 

[edge]

Which is a very fair point. But on the face of it, additional investment and remaining in the area does seem to be a good thing. I would be very surprised if May has just given an open cheque, knowing that every other company and Industry would be lining up behind, as not even the very worst Labour Governments would be that irresponsible so I'm willing to wait to see the details......it's noticeable that the usual suspects are not jumping up and down about it ........

the details are lots of people in a area that badly need jobs has got them, If I worked there I wouldn't give a rats other than I can look forward to having a decent future.
The Government subsidises every farmer in the country, nobody bats an eyelid , working class get a crumb thrown there way uproar, if it was in Battersea not the north east there wouldn't be a thing said.

 

[roydo]

The difference with Uber and them is that Uber drivers were blatantly employees.

Well I get my parcels from Yodel. Customers can complain or say nice things about me to Yodel. Yodel pay me. I pay Yodel £3.00 a week for insurance.

Ciggie paper difference really.

 

[dholliday]

Believe it or not, Rodrick has no real chips in the game with regards to globalization, and the impression I get is that he's not a fervent cheerleader of it himself. Given the apparent backlash against it that is manifesting itself in these various populist movements around the world though, his study is an interesting one. He's written a fine book on the topic if you wish to explore more.

Regarding the pigs thing, it is of course a rhetorical flourish, but the Hungarian government have been fervent in their anti-Muslim views and policies, and it's part of a common thread across the Visegrad that is very unfortunate. Zeman in Czech is no better. So whilst the pigs comment is hyperbole, the general attitude amongst the governments in that part of the world is most certainly not.

Fair enough on Rodrick, perhaps his work is being portrayed a certain way rather than it being his intention. I've seen him quoted a few times for backing up the abolition of the nation state, not just on here.


Regarding displaying pigs' heads on border fences, you said Orban allows this as a tactic. This is false.

But there is a general anti-Muslim sentiment. I for one understand it, tho' I don't share the anti-ness of it, this is counterproductive and even inhumane.

But I do have my own concerns about this culture's influence on European society. Promoting hate isn't the way, Muslims are people just like anyone else who just want to get on with their lives. The way forward is promoting tolerance from all sides. When Muslim women feel free to couple with non-Muslim men to make beautiful agnostic babies then we've made some important progress.

Otherwise the big issue is the low birth-rates of Europeans combined with the much higher birth-rates of Muslims will drastically alter the demographic make-up of Europe within the next 100 years. As we've seen from nations which are Muslim-majority, there are profound societal issues which hinder further development. The lack of separation of religion and state is one.

Germany for example allows anyone to apply for citizenship after 8 years of residence. A citizen may vote. A citizen may even found their own political party. It's within the realms of distinct possibility Germany will see a political party representing Muslims being voted in as part of a Great Coalition Government within the next 30 years.


These are valid concerns which deserve sober airtime, even if they're wrong. Hate speech plainly does not deserve such airtime. The problem is the former isn't getting this airtime, or even that it's being classed as hate speech itself. This leaves more room for the frustrated to make ever more intolerant noises.


Promoting tolerance means promoting respectful, nuanced and truthful debate. Since the migrant waves of September 2015 we haven't seen this from the media. They have been just as poisonous as bile-filled remarks on Twitter, only more insidious with it.

And understanding this, is to (partly) understand why so many voted Brexit. Whether right or wrong, it's important first to understand.

 

[Joey66]

Wouldn't surprise me to see it getting overturned* on appeal, meself.










*by either a 'Govt-friendly' judge with 'ambitions' , or one about to 'retire'...

Let's see!

 

[roydo]

Also, could a Black Cab driver also get trips from Uber? Like, they are self employed as well, (I think), so whats to stop them signing up?

 

[tsubaki]

Well I get my parcels from Yodel. Customers can complain or say nice things about me to Yodel. Yodel pay me. I pay Yodel £3.00 a week for insurance.

Ciggie paper difference really.

Not really. If they are employing you to do something for them, you are an employee.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

It wouldn't be a surprise, but the kicking their case got was so comprehensive - they were actually called liars in the judgement - that it would have to be a very good retirement package indeed for it to get overturned.

How does £300 a day and the word 'lord' in front of your name, sound?

 

[tsubaki]

How does £300 a day and the word 'lord' in front of your name, sound?

I think this is one of those judgements that would require £3000 a day, the word "Lord" in front of your name, and an island in the Grenadines.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I think this is one of those judgements that would require £3000 a day, the word "Lord" in front of your name, and an island in the Grenadines.

Divvy's from the share option @ .000001p they took up should cover that. Post-retirement, of course.

 

[Joey66]

I see a suntanned Tony Blair has just given Brexit a boost. By opening his mouth

 

[roydo]

Not really. If they are employing you to do something for them, you are an employee.

They have contracted me to deliver stuff. Its all smokes and mirrors, and it could be viewed either way I guess.

I would hate to be an employee though. They would just have fewer drivers, and be able to effectively set what I deliver, as opposed to us having an albeit, informal arrangement on the maximum I will take.

Then have to claim mileage and stuff as an employee. For the minimum wage, cos thats what they would pay, nailed on. As it is, I make apx £15 per hour, (gross, granted), and it fits in perfectly with our lifestyle.

Cant see Uber being a million miles away from that. They pick folk up, from an App. I drop stuff off from a van.

 

[orchard]

the details are lots of people in a area that badly need jobs has got them, If I worked there I wouldn't give a rats other than I can look forward to having a decent future.
The Government subsidises every farmer in the country, nobody bats an eyelid , working class get a crumb thrown there way uproar, if it was in Battersea not the north east there wouldn't be a thing said.

Not exactly true, although I have empathy with the general point. Austerity should have been applied fairly, if it was going to be applied.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Well, take Uber as an example in London. Before Uber, TFL and the old PCO (both arms of the Government) ran a safe, fair and simple system for the regulation of private hire vehicles and black cabs that rewarded people who put in time and effort to better themselves.

Then Uber - backed by various hedge funds, of course - comes along, and the Government actually lobbies the Mayor of London not to impose eminently sensible restrictions on the company, even though the decision will negatively affect tens of thousands of British citizens and result in a loss to the public purse. Not only does it do that, it also allows Uber to operate in a way that a court decision today found was "faintly ridiculous", accepting Uber's argument over how it related to those who drove for it despite that argument being, and there is no other word for it, bollocks:

edit: to put it in a simpler way, the elected Government of this country helped a private firm circumvent the regulations put in place by that Government and which it still expected its own citizens (and firms) to follow.

One can only speculate why people would treat a firm backed by billionaire hedge funds like that.

Whilst I have no real love for Uber, they did disrupt what can only be called a cartel in the taxi industry. It's also worth considering that Uber bought a startup called Otto earlier this year, who make software that retro-fits trucks to make them automated. That's the elephant in the room, as driving is far and away the biggest employer of un-skilled men in the western world, and automation is likely to make them all redundant within the next decade.

This is what I mean, because the disruption from globalisation (whether from foreign competition or migrants) is no different to disruption from technology. The government to date do very little to support people through that disruption, and from the conversations I've had with both the DoE and DWP in the past few months, they have no real clue how to support them any more in future either. The notion that leaving the EU will help with this is rather far stretched I'm afraid.