Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

I'm not the one assuming. Those that assert it's a good thing without knowing the details are, which was the point.

Which is a very fair point. But on the face of it, additional investment and remaining in the area does seem to be a good thing. I would be very surprised if May has just given an open cheque, knowing that every other company and Industry would be lining up behind, as not even the very worst Labour Governments would be that irresponsible so I'm willing to wait to see the details......it's noticeable that the usual suspects are not jumping up and down about it ........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I disagree with Rodrick, I think his suggestion is planted to further an agenda against the nation state concept.


Regarding Hungary, you said:



In reality it was a joke Twitter reply in response to a critical comment...from a little-known MEP called Schopflin, not even Orban. There's no indication that Orban supports this comment or that such a thing has ever happened.

This is from your own BBC link.

So-called Twitter Storms are catnip to lazy journos. This same story is in every Western paper.


Exaggerating the negatives one sees to help bolster one's own argument is a common debating tactic, which is a shame as in your case there's no need. Standing by your principles is fine until those principles get artifically bolstered by hyperbole. The principles look cheaper then, at least to the neutral observer.

Believe it or not, Rodrick has no real chips in the game with regards to globalization, and the impression I get is that he's not a fervent cheerleader of it himself. Given the apparent backlash against it that is manifesting itself in these various populist movements around the world though, his study is an interesting one. He's written a fine book on the topic if you wish to explore more.

Regarding the pigs thing, it is of course a rhetorical flourish, but the Hungarian government have been fervent in their anti-Muslim views and policies, and it's part of a common thread across the Visegrad that is very unfortunate. Zeman in Czech is no better. So whilst the pigs comment is hyperbole, the general attitude amongst the governments in that part of the world is most certainly not.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The problem is that globalization as it currently occurs is looking to get rid of the second choice, not the third.

How so?

 

[dholliday]

Hmm I take it you are not a big fan of Benedict Anderson ?

You mean he of Nation as imagined community fame?

I would agree to a point, tho' identity as a nationality of nation state is a real thing, and it has certain real privileges which naturally people are loathe to give up...just see the reaction to Brexit from the Bremain crowd for one, fearing their free movement status within EU will be affected.

So it's a real status, at least. And this is enough to cement identity, certainly more than the realisation the community may be 'imagined'.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Imagine if the whole world was like London?

Bliss for Bruce, I'd imagine. I mean, London welcomes all those corrupt banksters and oligarchs, while there's a programme of social cleansing that's going on...

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

How so?

Don't feign ignorance Bruce.

 

[catcherintherye]

It's not just that is it ?

How do you mean buddy?

 

[orchard]

Investment can be a very good stimulus Pete, but there are, as i'm sure you're aware, lots of things that we could support with our taxes, however, I would want a coherent framework first, that would be of long term benefit to our citizens.

Which is a very fair point. But on the face of it, additional investment and remaining in the area does seem to be a good thing. I would be very surprised if May has just given an open cheque, knowing that every other company and Industry would be lining up behind, as not even the very worst Labour Governments would be that irresponsible so I'm willing to wait to see the details......it's noticeable that the usual suspects are not jumping up and down about it ........

 

[Joey66]

How do you mean buddy?

Sovereignty!

 

[catcherintherye]

Sovereignty!

Yes true!

 

[tsubaki]

How so?

Well, take Uber as an example in London. Before Uber, TFL and the old PCO (both arms of the Government) ran a safe, fair and simple system for the regulation of private hire vehicles and black cabs that rewarded people who put in time and effort to better themselves.

Then Uber - backed by various hedge funds, of course - comes along, and the Government actually lobbies the Mayor of London not to impose eminently sensible restrictions on the company, even though the decision will negatively affect tens of thousands of British citizens and result in a loss to the public purse. Not only does it do that, it also allows Uber to operate in a way that a court decision today found was "faintly ridiculous", accepting Uber's argument over how it related to those who drove for it despite that argument being, and there is no other word for it, bollocks:

edit: to put it in a simpler way, the elected Government of this country helped a private firm circumvent the regulations put in place by that Government and which it still expected its own citizens (and firms) to follow.

One can only speculate why people would treat a firm backed by billionaire hedge funds like that.

 

[Joey66]

Uber earn millions I hope this is made law!

 

[roydo]

I hope that this Uber ruling isnt extended to delivery blokes.

The model is to have a core of salaried staff, admin etc obvs, and the HGV drivers. Then a small army of flexible owner drivers who effectively choose what they want to deliver, within reason.

Seems to work, with gazillions of parcels every day being dropped off.

Thats the model, if it doesnt suit you, dont sign up is my opinion.

 

[Armel]

You mean he of Nation as imagined community fame?

I would agree to a point, tho' identity as a nationality of nation state is a real thing, and it has certain real privileges which naturally people are loathe to give up...just see the reaction to Brexit from the Bremain crowd for one, fearing their free movement status within EU will be affected.

So it's a real status, at least. And this is enough to cement identity, certainly more than the realisation the community may be 'imagined'.

Yes him.

I agree with him that nations are imagined communities. I also enjoy it as a theoretical concept. I also don't enjoy nationalism because it leads to lot of excesses.

I agree with you in the sense that it's not because it's imagined that it's not real. I did law school and such; so in things like private international law and such it's very real.

I also believe that there is such a thing as a pan-European identity (also stimulated by things like Erasmus and such; wasn't the inventor of this English?). This is less present with English people than on the continent. In my mind the pan-European identity involves fraternity. Fraternity involves solidarity.

I don't really see the issue of the Bre-mainers (ghastly word), yes yes their free movement status (amongst other things) will probably be affected but on the other hand it was a democratic decision. I again express my sympathies for all the families involved and such. Also I'm guessing if they really want to go to Europe they can. Don't care about the economic arguments.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Uber earn millions I hope this is made law!

Wouldn't surprise me to see it getting overturned* on appeal, meself.










*by either a 'Govt-friendly' judge with 'ambitions' , or one about to 'retire'...