Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Pienaar's gloves]

I think we are storing massive problems for the future.

It's fine bringing in well educated people to fulfill roles that we need whose children will go on to have access to the best that this society can offer but importing poor uneducated people of a different race or religion will present us with horrible problems once the 2nd generation realize they are nothing more than 2nd class citizens. That's already occurring and it's feeding Islamic extremism among other things. Then to counter this we have identity politics to try and equalize the groups but all this does is discriminate against the people who were already here fueling racial tension.

It's a total mess brought to us by those that want to dictate to us and not have to ask our permission for anything.

Could be about time that we stop treating foreigners like second class citizens and then they won't feel that way?

 

[magicjuan]

Ignore the next generation of wealth creators mate, yeah that sounds like a plan.

We were talking 18-24 yr olds btw, not 6th formers who've just discovered green.

As someone who has been both young and old it comes down to the idealism of wanting a fairer crack of the whip as a youth and wanting to change the world that way, or as an oldie through tired cynical eyes, thinking we should scrap it all and start over....

I'd go for the younger version, it's knackered by fogies and has been since the year dot....

 

[ilikecheese]

I think we are storing massive problems for the future.

It's fine bringing in well educated people to fulfill roles that we need whose children will go on to have access to the best that this society can offer but importing poor uneducated people of a different race or religion will present us with horrible problems once the 2nd generation realize they are nothing more than 2nd class citizens. That's already occurring and it's feeding Islamic extremism among other things. Then to counter this we have identity politics to try and equalize the groups but all this does is discriminate against the people who were already here fueling racial tension.

It's a total mess brought to us by those that want to dictate to us and not have to ask our permission for anything.

My brother's wife is a first generation immigrant whose parent were:

1. Poor
2. Uneducated
3. Can barely speak English to this day.

She and her sister are both doctors.

 

[MartyMcFly]

My brother's wife is a first generation immigrant whose parent were:

1. Poor
2. Uneducated
3. Can barely speak English to this day.

She and her sister are both doctors.

Send her medal from me. Apart from that I have no idea what your point is.

 

[ilikecheese]

Send her medal from me. Apart from that I have no idea what your point is.

You were saying something about 2nd class citizens?

My sister in law is a Psychiatrist and works at the Seattle Children's Hospital helping kids who are coping with all sorts of problems.

Her sister is a surgeon in Manhattan.

 

[MartyMcFly]

You were saying something about 2nd class citizens?

My sister in law is a Psychiatrist and works at the Seattle Children's Hospital helping kids who are coping with all sorts of problems.

Her sister is a surgeon in Manhattan.

Individual anecdotes do nothing but play on the heart strings. This isn't a valid argument but mere manipulation. Something children fall for which is why they shouldn't have a vote. At a group level you have to look at the data not the individuals.

 

[ilikecheese]

Yea and individual anecdotes do nothing but play on the heart strings. This isn't a valid argument but mere manipulation. Something children fall for which is why they shouldn't have a vote. At a group level you have to look at the data not the individuals.

If you look at the data though in the UK, immigrants contribute more than they take.

I don't know how my sister in law and her sister are manipulating anything though.

 

[MartyMcFly]

If you look at the data though in the UK, immigrants contribute more than they take.

I don't know how my sister in law and her sister are manipulating anything though.

Because the inferral is that immigrants from poor background don't go on to live in poor neighborhoods that are then the source of many of societies problems which is clearly not the case. All we have to do is look at Paris, Brussels and many other European cities to know this isn't the case.

Regarding the data. You are lumping immigrant doctors in with immigrant scroungers and immigrants from one country with those from other countries. What I am saying is we need to pick and choose. Anyway it's a tired argument had many times before so I will leave it there.

 

[peteblue]

What's your vision for the future of the uk then Pete? Obviously the tories envision a neo-liberal tax-free corporate sweatshop of sorts,but what about you? You never really have anything substantive to say in this regard, only something approximating to 'May will sort it all out'. She won't sort it out to the satisfaction off a large proportion of leave voters.

Let me come back to you.......

 

[MartyMcFly]

What's your vision for the future of the uk then Pete? Obviously the tories envision a neo-liberal tax-free corporate sweatshop of sorts,but what about you? You never really have anything substantive to say in this regard, only something approximating to 'May will sort it all out'. She won't sort it out to the satisfaction off a large proportion of leave voters.

If the EU try and bully the UK and we simply drop our corporation tax rate to 10% to make up for tariffs which is what I read was the plan then that's probably going to be a good thing.

Tariffs are something corporations wouldn't be able to avoid unlike taxes.

Similarly I would prefer more tax be in the form of VAT (even if that required more VAT class types) because income tax is too easily avoided by the rich.

It doesn't necessarily have to be neo-liberal. It's just a different way for government to raise revenue.

 

[MartyMcFly]

Could be about time that we stop treating foreigners like second class citizens and then they won't feel that way?

We don't. The problem is when you look around and everyone who looks like you is poor and most of the people who aren't poor don't look like you it's very easy and understandable to think we do and be angry about it.

 

[roydo]

Similarly I would prefer more tax be in the form of VAT (even if that required more VAT class types) because income tax is too easily avoided by the rich.

So increase tax on the poor then.

Ok.

 

[ilikecheese]

We don't. The problem is when you look around and everyone who looks like you is poor and most of the people who aren't poor don't look like you it's very easy and understandable to think we do and be angry about it.

Sounds like the people that look like you need to get off their butts and get a job. I reckon the people that look like you wouldn't fancy being a bin man though.

 

[orchard]

So increase tax on the poor then.

Ok.

Yea, and further the empowerment of corp's over small/medium businesses and traders.

 

[MartyMcFly]

So increase tax on the poor then.

Ok.

No. I said we could have many different levels of VAT. e.g. We could increase VAT on luxury cars.