Current Affairs EU In or Out

[roydo]

We gotta pick a good one though.

Mumsnet was funny.

 

[peteblue]

Mumsnet was funny.

Scary though......

 

[peteblue]

There does appear to be a huge vacuum for those 'citizens of the world' that May was so dismissive of. I live in hope that the LibDems might pull their finger out, but that may be a forlorn hope.

It's a lovely idea 'Citizens of the World'. Eight Billion people all turning up at Moscow airport demanding the right of abode. I'm sure that nice Mr Putin would welcome them with open arms....it is a lovely idea though and may well happen one day....

 

[ToffeeTim]

Rather than carrying on a dead debate about membership etc., why don't those who favour the E U do something positive? There's clearly a gap in the market, so help form a new political party which will seek to apply for British membership in 15 or 20 years.

Leaving is (apparently) going to be such a catastrophe that such a party will rapidly gain members and political clout.

I can't see the EU still existing in 15-20 years

 

[peteblue]

In the interest of holding folks to account, it's perhaps worth saying that leave campaigners (Boris in particular) said that we would have access to the single market without free movement. Of course, I'm sure 'remoaners' told some lies too or something. and no voters were taken in by this blatant porky pie.

I thought we'd agreed not to use that word 'remoaners', no matter how accurate it was.......

 

[jaycee]

The problem with "citizens of the world" is while there is terrorism and the media constantly push that threat under peoples noses,virtually all populations will give up a lot of freedom for the sake of safety

 

[peteblue]

I can't see the EU still existing in 15-20 years

The fact that it seems to be splitting into various blocs, Club Med, The Baltics, Scandinavia and the Visegrad groups, to challenge Germany and France for a voice in the EU suggests that there may be a small issue of differing visions. It is becoming too politically and culturally diverse and the future additions will not really help it to become a united political body. The UK has trouble with just 4 different nations where we all speak a common language, have a proper monetary union and have been 'integrating' for a couple of hundred years, so the EU no matter how clever they are will face the odd SNP or five.........

 

[tsubaki]

The fact that it seems to be splitting into various blocs, Club Med, The Baltics, Scandinavia and the Visegrad groups, to challenge Germany and France for a voice in the EU suggests that there may be a small issue of differing visions. It is becoming too politically and culturally diverse and the future additions will not really help it to become a united political body. The UK has trouble with just 4 different nations where we all speak a common language, have a proper monetary union and have been 'integrating' for a couple of hundred years, so the EU no matter how clever they are will face the odd SNP or five.........

The problem, as it is for the UK, is that the current generation of European politicians specialize in accidentally destroying established political structures.

The UK did not have a problem integrating the constituent nations until Blair thought it would be a good idea to bring about devolution; the EU didn't have an EU-busting migration problem until Merkel tried to show how compassionate she was after being criticized for a fake hug she gave a Palestinian girl on German TV. Right now there are loads of them who seem to be determined to show how liberal they are by threatening to step in and "save" Aleppo, even though it risks an actual shooting war with the Russians.

Long years of peace tend to result in a higher level of idiocy among the rulers - just look at the buildup to the First World War for the truth of that.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

It's a lovely idea 'Citizens of the World'. Eight Billion people all turning up at Moscow airport demanding the right of abode. I'm sure that nice Mr Putin would welcome them with open arms....it is a lovely idea though and may well happen one day....

Aye. And there's us leavers being told we're living in the pre-EU/EEC 70's. It's gone all very coca-cola ('n' cheese) hasn't it?

 

[MartyMcFly]

Of course it's an issue, hence the reason it was one of the prime drivers for the young voters

Obtaining work visas etc isn't freedom of movement as there's no guarantee they'll be granted when we've finished cocooning ourselves off from the rest of Europe

Getting student visas for a year won't be a problem and If you are good at your work there isn't a problem with moving. All economies need people who will add value to it. You make it sound like it's a choice between immigration and no immigration.

 

[orchard]

“…our country is not being destroyed by bad politics, it is being destroyed by a bad way of life. Bad politics is merely another result.”

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's a lovely idea 'Citizens of the World'. Eight Billion people all turning up at Moscow airport demanding the right of abode. I'm sure that nice Mr Putin would welcome them with open arms....it is a lovely idea though and may well happen one day....

Lets keep things realistic Pete. For me, it's more about seeing other people as a positive thing, not a negative thing.

The problem with "citizens of the world" is while there is terrorism and the media constantly push that threat under peoples noses,virtually all populations will give up a lot of freedom for the sake of safety

The 'threat' from terrorism is utterly minuscule. You're far more at risk crossing the road.

Getting student visas for a year won't be a problem and If you are good at your work there isn't a problem with moving. All economies need people who will add value to it. You make it sound like it's a choice between immigration and no immigration.

Rudd has said she wants immigration at ~ 10,000 per year. There were ~ 90,000 student visas from non-EU countries last year alone. Maybe you should write a memo to her office.

 

[jaycee]

Lets keep things realistic Pete. For me, it's more about seeing other people as a positive thing, not a negative thing.



The 'threat' from terrorism is utterly minuscule. You're far more at risk crossing the road.



Rudd has said she wants immigration at ~ 10,000 per year. There were ~ 90,000 student visas from non-EU countries last year alone. Maybe you should write a memo to her office.

I wouldnt argue with that point Bruce, what im saying is the MSM portray a very real threat from terrorists so a hell of a lot of people are prepared to see borders closed,allow multiple CCTVs and monitering of emails,texts etc because they are told its the only way to fight the threat,

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

The 'threat' from terrorism is utterly minuscule. You're far more at risk crossing the road.

By accident

By design.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I wouldnt argue with that point Bruce, what im saying is the MSM portray a very real threat from terrorists so a hell of a lot of people are prepared to see borders closed,allow multiple CCTVs and monitering of emails,texts etc because they are told its the only way to fight the threat,

<possibly unrepresentative anecdote>When I was in Czech, a daughter of my aunt (whatever that makes her), was saying that she thought about moving to the north of the country (near the border with Germany) but decided not to because she was worried about all the refugees flooding across the border from German refugee camps. She's a police woman.

Alas, perhaps a more realistic picture was painted by the boyfriend of my sister in law, who works in security in these camps. He was saying that most of the refugees are well educated and pretty well off people, and his main job was to stop other staff at the camp from stealing their belongings.</possibly unrepresentative anecdote>