Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Does it account for the spending related to covid?

Or inflation. I.e. Real terms spend

 

[Goat]

Or inflation. I.e. Real terms spend

Some people are only able to do "Big number good".

 

[peteblue]

What purpose does the EU serve. The Red Sea and the Houthis are blocking maritime trade. EU member ships have been attacked. The EU response, Germany at least signed a document supporting the USA and U.K. action, without providing any support. France, Italy and Spain wouldn’t even sign it and again provided no support. The EU via Germany is trying to set up an EU wide response, again with no one willing to get involved and no doubt lots of Vetoes to come. The EU is quite frankly a disgrace. I want nothing to do with it as you know, but twice we have have got involved with wars protecting Europe, now a group not willing to protect itself. If ever Russia decides to roll over its borders I’d let them tbh as I’m fed up with seeing American and British servicemen give their lives and our countries money looking after this lot……

 

[Kurt.]

What did the Romans ever do for us

 

[sbbefc]

What purpose does the EU serve. The Red Sea and the Houthis are blocking maritime trade. EU member ships have been attacked. The EU response, Germany at least signed a document supporting the USA and U.K. action, without providing any support. France, Italy and Spain wouldn’t even sign it and again provided no support. The EU via Germany is trying to set up an EU wide response, again with no one willing to get involved and no doubt lots of Vetoes to come. The EU is quite frankly a disgrace. I want nothing to do with it as you know, but twice we have have got involved with wars protecting Europe, now a group not willing to protect itself. If ever Russia decides to roll over its borders I’d let them tbh as I’m fed up with seeing American and British servicemen give their lives and our countries money looking after this lot……

You're just trolling now. EU member states can respond to it as they wish. If we were in the EU we'd be straight in there with the US in the exact same way we always have done.

 

[Xizor]

So to sum up: Having spent years complaining that the EU wants to build an army and fearing having to be a components of that, the resident Little Englander over here is upset this army doesn't actually exist and isn't swinging right into action beside us.

Bit of a session was it last night Pete, putting the world to rights whilst in your cups?

 

[Drico]

Brexit has cost the UK £140bn so far, according to new analysis, and could see the nation £311bn worse off by the middle of the next decade, according to a new report.

Economists and analysts at Cambridge Econometrics - commissioned by London's mayor, Sadiq Khan - have modelled how the UK's economy would have acted were it still in the European Union.


This was compared to data published by the Office for Budget of Responsibility in March 2023, and forecasts based on those data. Those official forecasts have since been downgraded as of November last year.

The headline findings from the report include lower growth, lower employment, strong negative impacts on investment, imports falling more than exports, and a growing gap between London and the rest of the UK.

The report analysed the gross value added - GVA - which is a measure of how much value is added by an area through the production of goods and the actions of services.

Cambridge Econometrics says it found UK GVA was £2,207bn in 2023 under current circumstances, and will be £2,771bn by 2035.

But without Brexit, the organisation states the UK would have had a GVA of £2,347bn in 2023, and it would have reached £3,082bn by 2035.

This equates to GVA being 6% lower in 2023 than it would have been without Brexit, and 10.1% lower in 2035.


They found that, by 2035, the UK is anticipated to have three million fewer jobs, 32% lower investment, 5% lower exports and 16% lower imports, than it would have had if the UK had not left the EU.

Cambridge Econometrics also found Brexit is expected to cause the productivity gap between London and the rest of the UK to widen further.

The scenario which included the UK in the EU used an E3ME model, which is used transnationally for forecasting. It includes data from UN, OECD, World Bank, IMF, the ONS and Eurostat.

The report says it tried to "isolate and subtract" the "Brexit effect" from factors like trade and investment in the main scenario - which it says is "effectively modelling a scenario in which other factors (eg, the COVID-19 pandemic and the war in Ukraine) took place but Brexit did not".

Shyamoli Patel, principal economist at Cambridge Econometrics, said: "Our study reveals that London's economy would have grown faster if Brexit hadn't taken place. Looking ahead, we project that Brexit will continue to have an impact on the UK and London economies in the medium term."

Mr Khan is set to use the report to make the case for a closer relationship with Europe on Thursday evening at Mansion House.

The London mayor will say that it is "now obvious that Brexit isn't working" - blaming the "hard-line Brexit we've ended up with".

Mr Khan will add: "The cost of Brexit crisis can only be solved if we take a mature approach and if we are open to improving our trading arrangements with our European neighbours.

"I agree with the shadow foreign secretary [David Lammy], who has said we urgently need to build a closer relationship with the EU."

With a general election looming, Brexit will be an issue used to attack Labour and its leader Sir Keir Starmer, who backed a second referendum.

The problem with the Labour angle is that they are still refusing to admit the simple truth: Brexit cannot work.

They are still playing to the right-wing delusion that if only if was "done right", it would have been a huge success. But, by definition. Brexit could never "work" economically. Brexit is about distancing yourself from your biggest and closest trading partners. Given that the vast majority of trade is done between nations' closest neighbours, there is no way to "plug the gap" of his self-inflicted cut. You can say "We'll take the hit for extra sovereignty", but even that is dubious: in real de facto terms, you have less sovereignty now than you had as one of 28. The proof? How little Ireland rolled you over on the Brexit negotiations. And then there is the question: what's the point of sovereignty if it means being poorer? Isn't a major point of sovereignty to be better off?

So, all this talk of "moving closer to Europe" is, frankly, disingenuous. Europe has little to gain by allowing you to "move closer" - unless it is purely on Europe's terms. Politically, that'll be difficult for Labour to sell, because the logical final position of the UK - short of rejoining - is to be as "close as possible" to the EU whilst having absolutely no say in the rules that dictate the relationship. This is the mad conclusion of Brexit: to be in a worse position than before with no say whatosever in what is happening. And yet that is a better position than the current position, which is tantamount to the UK putting its fingers in its ears and going "La la la la la."

Still, I suppose these Labour people have to start somewhere. They'll be greeted as reasonable partners by the EU when they win power, but the EU will also be wary of their cherry-picking tendencies, which is the space where all UK politicians find themselves until they can bring themselves to admit Brexit cannot work. As much as it will be a joy to see the back of the far-right Tories who have poisoned the well, Labour won't be given any favours.

 

[Rita_Poon]

The problem with the Labour angle is that they are still refusing to admit the simple truth: Brexit cannot work.

They are still playing to the right-wing delusion that if only if was "done right", it would have been a huge success. But, by definition. Brexit could never "work" economically. Brexit is about distancing yourself from your biggest and closest trading partners. Given that the vast majority of trade is done between nations' closest neighbours, there is no way to "plug the gap" of his self-inflicted cut. You can say "We'll take the hit for extra sovereignty", but even that is dubious: in real de facto terms, you have less sovereignty now than you had as one of 28. The proof? How little Ireland rolled you over on the Brexit negotiations. And then there is the question: what's the point of sovereignty if it means being poorer? Isn't a major point of sovereignty to be better off?

So, all this talk of "moving closer to Europe" is, frankly, disingenuous. Europe has little to gain by allowing you to "move closer" - unless it is purely on Europe's terms. Politically, that'll be difficult for Labour to sell, because the logical final position of the UK - short of rejoining - is to be as "close as possible" to the EU whilst having absolutely no say in the rules that dictate the relationship. This is the mad conclusion of Brexit: to be in a worse position than before with no say whatosever in what is happening. And yet that is a better position than the current position, which is tantamount to the UK putting its fingers in its ears and going "La la la la la."

Still, I suppose these Labour people have to start somewhere. They'll be greeted as reasonable partners by the EU when they win power, but the EU will also be wary of their cherry-picking tendencies, which is the space where all UK politicians find themselves until they can bring themselves to admit Brexit cannot work. As much as it will be a joy to see the back of the far-right Tories who have poisoned the well, Labour won't be given any favours.

britain

the johnsonites reckoned on europe rolling over and cow towing to british demands and sold the morons on this fantasy. The south eastern lust for the halcyon days of empire and white rule were tapped into by the press and the farages and moggs of the world and delivered what, financial nuclear winter where every measurable metric of standard of living has been negatively impacted. If it wasn't so catastrophic it'd be a work of art.

'whatabout blair'
'yes, but corbyn'
'ah but beergate and starmer though'

delusional racists also get a vote, and there's just so many of em. let the seas rise, the sooner britannia is covered in waves the better. prom night that.

 

[Yarrgh]

Thanks imbeciles, racists, opportunist grifters, and backwoodsmen.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

The problem with the Labour angle is that they are still refusing to admit the simple truth: Brexit cannot work.

They are still playing to the right-wing delusion that if only if was "done right", it would have been a huge success. But, by definition. Brexit could never "work" economically. Brexit is about distancing yourself from your biggest and closest trading partners. Given that the vast majority of trade is done between nations' closest neighbours, there is no way to "plug the gap" of his self-inflicted cut. You can say "We'll take the hit for extra sovereignty", but even that is dubious: in real de facto terms, you have less sovereignty now than you had as one of 28. The proof? How little Ireland rolled you over on the Brexit negotiations. And then there is the question: what's the point of sovereignty if it means being poorer? Isn't a major point of sovereignty to be better off?

So, all this talk of "moving closer to Europe" is, frankly, disingenuous. Europe has little to gain by allowing you to "move closer" - unless it is purely on Europe's terms. Politically, that'll be difficult for Labour to sell, because the logical final position of the UK - short of rejoining - is to be as "close as possible" to the EU whilst having absolutely no say in the rules that dictate the relationship. This is the mad conclusion of Brexit: to be in a worse position than before with no say whatosever in what is happening. And yet that is a better position than the current position, which is tantamount to the UK putting its fingers in its ears and going "La la la la la."

Still, I suppose these Labour people have to start somewhere. They'll be greeted as reasonable partners by the EU when they win power, but the EU will also be wary of their cherry-picking tendencies, which is the space where all UK politicians find themselves until they can bring themselves to admit Brexit cannot work. As much as it will be a joy to see the back of the far-right Tories who have poisoned the well, Labour won't be given any favours.

I don’t think Labour have any real choice but to take this angle and most politicians (except the mad right) don’t particularly want to talk about it anymore as it splits their vote.

There are far bigger domestic policies that most people see as more of a priority.

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Again, from 2016, what were the actual numbers ?…

Mate, he's bummed you here. With no lube. Stop it.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Mate, he's bummed you here. With no lube. Stop it.

Lube is for wokes

 

[Kurt.]

Lube is for wokes

Vote Lubeour

 

[Mrbluenose]

What purpose does the EU serve. The Red Sea and the Houthis are blocking maritime trade. EU member ships have been attacked. The EU response, Germany at least signed a document supporting the USA and U.K. action, without providing any support. France, Italy and Spain wouldn’t even sign it and again provided no support. The EU via Germany is trying to set up an EU wide response, again with no one willing to get involved and no doubt lots of Vetoes to come. The EU is quite frankly a disgrace. I want nothing to do with it as you know, but twice we have have got involved with wars protecting Europe, now a group not willing to protect itself. If ever Russia decides to roll over its borders I’d let them tbh as I’m fed up with seeing American and British servicemen give their lives and our countries money looking after this lot……

The EU

Loads of money.

Zero backbone.

How can a continent be so rich and weak as piss?

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

Oh, now they care