Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

Time for the capitalist and finance to do one as well.

Empty shelves are the only way Britain’s underpaid workers can grab national attention | Aditya Chakrabortty

If you don’t care about workers, a vicious downward cycle works – as long as you can get them. Then one day, you can’t, says Guardian columnist Aditya Chakrabortty

www.theguardian.com

Where have you been in the last decade!?

The state pension was introduced in 1925, when the average life expectancy of people in Britain was 49. It wasn't changed until 2007, when it was announced that it would increase to 66 by 2024. In the intervening years between Labour announcing it would rise by a year, life expectancy grew by 2 years, and was well over 80. During this time, the triple lock was also introduced to further load the dice in favour of pensioners (who vote) as opposed to the working age people who pay their pension (who often do not). Most attempts to raise the retirement age so that it was more in keeping with our growing life expectancy were met by howls of protest (by people who vote remember) about how unfair that they had paid in all their lives only for the rules to change (they vote but generally don't know how the state pension works).

So we continue to bungle along, all the while our dependency ratio gets gradually worse and worse, especially as over 20% of those of working age don't work (and haven't done over a very prolonged period of time) and we seem to be stubbornly against allowing migrants who don't require schooling and contribute from day 1.

<iframe src="https://knoema.com/atlas/embed/United-Kingdom/topics/Demographics/Dependency-Ratios/Old-age-dependency-ratio-65-per-20-64" allowtransparency="true" frameborder="0" width="920" min-width="560" height="700" scrolling="no"></iframe>

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So, the end of what was effectively an unlimited supply of cheap labour, means that wages in the UK, for the working classes, are now on average going up. Maybe not for all jobs, but the wages for many lower paid jobs are no longer being depressed by an over supply of labour. The working classes now have a bit of leverage to demand a better wage... The company I work for has just voluntarily given out mass pay rises in the range of 10-20%, to stop the high turnover of staff who can earn more elsewhere.

I don't know what you do for a living, but migrants don't just "steal jobs". They also consume, so jobs in areas involved in the provision of whatever they consume go up, and they also pay taxes, and all evidence shows they pay far more in taxes than they consume in public services.

Lump of labour fallacy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

or perhaps https://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2008/10/the-accidental.html

 

[Mr. White]

Never myself brought into the idea of having to move jobs and change career, nothing wrong in the concept continuity and experience.

However, who ends up paying for the 10-20%?

Nor me... I've worked for the same company for 20 years. But loyal employees/customers are screwed over. I've always known that the only way to get a pay rise, other than through promotion, is to hand in my notice, or threaten to leave. But, I like working for my company. So, it's always been a risk of whether they call my bluff or not...

Now, workers can smell blood! It's quite interesting at the moment..you can tell who is valued. The respected employees, who have handed in their notice, have been offered significant offers to stay. The lazy, negative, moaning types who over-value their own importance to the company have had their resignations accepted.

I've just been given a 20% pay rise, because of the many others handing in their resignations. Cheers guys!

That said, wages have been completely depressed over a significant number of years. Typically, we've been given 1%-2% per year... and that's on a good year! Some years, no increase. Accounting for inflation, wages haven't actually gone up. In real terms, spending power has gone down.

As for who pays for the increase... our institutional shareholders! At least in the short term, they'll have to accept lower profits.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Nor me... I've worked for the same company for 20 years. But loyal employees/customers are screwed over. I've always known that the only way to get a pay rise, other than through promotion, is to hand in my notice, or threaten to leave. But, I like working for my company. So, it's always been a risk of whether they call my bluff or not...

Now, workers can smell blood! It's quite interesting at the moment..you can tell who is valued. The respected employees, who have handed in their notice, have been offered significant offers to stay. The lazy, negative, moaning types who over-value their own importance to the company have had their resignations accepted.

I've just been given a 20% pay rise, because of the many others handing in their resignations. Cheers guys!

That said, wages have been completely depressed over a significant number of years. Typically, we've been given 1%-2% per year... and that's on a good year! Some years, no increase. Accounting for inflation, wages haven't actually gone up. In real terms, spending power has gone down.

As for who pays for the increase... our institutional shareholders! At least in the short term, they'll have to accept lower profits.

lolDoes no one know how to simply ask for a raise in your place?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Was always advised to never accept a company’s counter offer if you submit your resignation to them. Not a general rule but hardly shows that your committed or good at communicating m.

 

[Mr. White]

sounds good, but it will fuel inflation. this will affect everyone, even those who don't benefit from a pay rise at work.
So incomes will go up for most but the cost of living will go up correspondingly for everyone.
Unless it's managed very carefully, a lot of people could be in real trouble.

The ones who won't get a pay prise are probably already well paid. The government has been increasing the minimum wage, year on year. The lowest paid started to catch up with their supervisors, managers etc, so this causes an upward pressure on wages.

The cost of living for everyone has been going up for a long, long time. Wages have failed to keep up. House prices have spiralled out of control. Even 20% pay rises won't address this problem.

 

[Mr. White]

lolDoes no one know how to simply ask for a raise in your place?

Yes.

Answer - "No, there's not enough money in the pot"

Suddenly, there is. Happy days.

 

[FrenchDarrenBent]

The thing that the government have conveniently failed to understand is that countries regularly rely on labour from elsewhere. They have got caught up trying to win the xenophobic vote that they have essentially sacrificed fundamental principles of a healthy, functioning economy.
There will have to be an inevitable backtracking at some point.

That was the whole point of the internal market anyway.

Free movement of labour was a golden chance for our ruling class because it undermines & divides the working class.
That's why the corporate tories were againt brexit anyway:

1. Construction & transport: Unions lose their members: Polish & romanian lorrydrivers don't unionize and don't complain
2. They also undermine the funding of social security by utilizing foreign 'independant subcontractors': Romanians are willing to drive a lorry for £7. They work on constructionprojects for as little as £9/h
3. Farming: Polish fruit (with a labourcost of £5 an hour) is far cheaper than fruit grown here. The low milk prices from central Europe are driving the western-european farmers out of business.

Belgium, France & recently Germany are seeing the worst of it now: Labourstandards in some important sectors are reverting to the lowest common denominator (Bulgaria or Romania, witch invites fiscal & social defrauding systems).
And if you try to do something about it, as a nation, you have the European justice system to fine you.

A lot of independant constructionworkers on mainland Europe have quit and only the 'big' local contractors are profiting. The labourshortage would be immense if Poland & other central European countries would 'exit' the union...

I'm still against brexit, but lorrydrivers (or other working people) being paid a decent living wage, is something that I'm not against. It might be a nice side effect of a historically stupid decision. If they pay people enough, you'll find your drivers.

 

[Mr. White]

I don't know what you do for a living, but migrants don't just "steal jobs". They also consume, so jobs in areas involved in the provision of whatever they consume go up, and they also pay taxes, and all evidence shows they pay far more in taxes than they consume in public services.

Lump of labour fallacy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

or perhaps https://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2008/10/the-accidental.html

I never said "steal jobs". You said "steal jobs", not me. I suggested that an over-supply of labour competes for jobs and suppresses wages. Which it does.

 

[mill]

I never said "steal jobs". You said "steal jobs", not me. I suggested that an over-supply of labour competes for jobs and suppresses wages. Which it does.

The flip side, that deflation keeps rates low and asset prices up (hello property boom).

And it’s not just brexit that’s causing it. It’s the double whammy of covid.

And the tailwind of globalisation in general dissipating. Offshoring cheap manufacturing to China for instance. China have gone some way to rebalancing their economy to the service industry with less reliance on exports or manufacturing.

Ultimately it’ll all lead to inflation, higher rates and a hit to assets. At least for the companies that can’t pass their costs is onto consumers.

Which is fine but can also be a catalyst to recession.

 

[arminisgod]

We are having the same issue at the minute, people demanding pay rises and walking away etc. Fair enough in my eyes, a lot of the EU workers have gone home for good and the rest can smell blood and want their fair pay.

Also on the HGV drivers it's not just tbe EU shortage, thousands of people are waiting to take their test and their medicals. The gov simply need to speed it all up

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I don't know what the government thinks is going to happen if the care system buckles, much like it's first COVID response, out of sight out minds is the hope.

Indeed, one place many of these people would end up and that's in our hospitals. And what do we think is going to happen then in hospitals that already can't manage their workload...

 

[Blue 1]

 

[Alan Whittle]

View attachment 138041

British wasps only I hope?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

The end of freedom of movement...

Heathrow criticises Border Force for 'unacceptable' queues

The airport says too few staff were on duty at passport control as families returned from holiday.

www.bbc.co.uk

More food shortages incomming as more agreements end.

UK food supply problems set to deepen as new Brexit checks come into force

Business owners fear food safety checks set to be introduced from 1 October will make some shipments unviable, but government says its approach has been ‘pragmatic’

www.independent.co.uk