Current Affairs EU In or Out

[JimmyJeffers]

I think it will force our farmers to up their game tbh. Soon when trade deals are done, cheaper meat will be available from many countries. Outside of the EU there will be far more choice.....

Many farmers make low mark ups on beef and lamb considering the amounts of labour and costs that go into to it. Can’t imagine chicken and pork is much different. Cutting costs will likely be at detriment to animals welfare.
I always wonder about the sheep farming, given the low amount of lamb and mutton we eat and a lot of lamb in the supermarkets seems to come from NZ (unbelievably enough) Think the Eu is our largest export of lamb. @nsno-chris may know more about this.
Farming subsidies are certainly contentious subjects but they did encourage environmental practices.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Think I read somewhere that red meat is about 18% cheaper in Australia, once you factor in the transport costs will it be that much cheaper once it gets to the UK?
The UK could get a premium price, being fresher, more green less transport more local ect if they market it properly.

It would certainly be interesting if anyone had some actual figures.

 

[tsubaki]

Is there any data for any of this? I see a lot of talk about Australian meat being so much cheaper, but no one seems able to provide a comparative cost of production between the UK and Australia. Similarly with food safety standards. I found the article below from their food safety body, but nowhere does it mention how the livestock is reared, instead talking about how food is prepared.

Australia’s food safety report card released for the inaugural World Food Safety Day 7 June 2019

The Food Safety Information Council has released a report card on Australia’s food safety record in recognition of the inaugural UN World Food Safety Day 7 June 2019. Council Chair, Cathy Moir, said that there are an estimated 4.1 million cases of food poisoning in Australia each year that...

foodsafety.asn.au

There "do" appear to be more cases of food poisoning in Australia than here, but their own food safety body doesn't seem to think that's due to hormone injection or whatnot.

TBF it’s many more cases, and although there will be more than one reason the standard of meat production is going to be one of the main ones (probably the main one).

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Many farmers make low mark ups on beef and lamb considering the amounts of labour and costs that go into to it. Can’t imagine chicken and pork is much different. Cutting costs will likely be at detriment to animals welfare.
I always wonder about the sheep farming, given the low amount of lamb and mutton we eat and a lot of lamb in the supermarkets seems to come from NZ (unbelievably enough) Think the Eu is our largest export of lamb. @nsno-chris may know more about this.
Farming subsidies are certainly contentious subjects but they did encourage environmental practices.

Apparently just under 300,000 tonnes of lamb is produced in the UK each year. Our imports from NZ amount to around 40,000 tonnes. So NZ imports are around 15% of domestic produce.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

TBF it’s many more cases, and although there will be more than one reason the standard of meat production is going to be one of the main ones (probably the main one).

It would be good to get some actual evidence either way though, wouldn't it? We seem to be in a bizarre situation whereby we're discounting the vast majority of Truss' trade deals as inconsequential twaddle, which they quite probably are, and yet believe this deal with Australia will ruin the entire economy. The actual data suggests it's going to be just as inconsequential as all the others.

 

[tsubaki]

It would be good to get some actual evidence either way though, wouldn't it? We seem to be in a bizarre situation whereby we're discounting the vast majority of Truss' trade deals as inconsequential twaddle, which they quite probably are, and yet believe this deal with Australia will ruin the entire economy. The actual data suggests it's going to be just as inconsequential as all the others.

in terms of food poisoning here, 2019 had 8800 :

Food poisoning decline continues in England and Wales

Food poisoning in England and Wales has gone down for the fifth year in a row, according to annual figures. There were more than 8,800 formally notified

www.foodsafetynews.com

difficult to compare it to Aus but probably the one million GP visits (which IIRC would trigger a notification in the UK) would be the number to use

edit: the economic damage might well be insignificant, but there could easily be real health implications

 

[Bruce Wayne]

in terms of food poisoning here, 2019 had 8800 :

Food poisoning decline continues in England and Wales

Food poisoning in England and Wales has gone down for the fifth year in a row, according to annual figures. There were more than 8,800 formally notified

www.foodsafetynews.com

difficult to compare it to Aus but probably the one million GP visits (which IIRC would trigger a notification in the UK) would be the number to use

edit: the economic damage might well be insignificant, but there could easily be real health implications

Yes, as I said earlier, Australia does have considerably more cases of food poisoning than here, but their own food safety agency says that's due to food preparation rather than farming methods. Correlation and causation.

 

[tsubaki]

Yes, as I said earlier, Australia does have considerably more cases of food poisoning than here, but their own food safety agency says that's due to food preparation rather than farming methods. Correlation and causation.

TBF they are hardly likely to say it’s because of how the food is produced, even though that’s far more likely to be a factor than Chad not having the barbie hot enough.

 

[peteblue]

I see VDL lying through her teeth again in respect of vaccinations. She’s now claiming that the EU have ‘caught up’ with the USA and U.K...

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Maybe you're able to tell me the cost of production for a unit of beef in Australia versus the UK? As a point of comparison, Britain consumes around 920 million kg of red meat per year, and Australia currently exports around 6 million kg of red meat to the entire EU. Indeed, entire Australian beef exports come to around 600 million kg, with around 75% of that currently going to Asian markets.

So are we really arguing that not only will Australian beef exports rise by 50%, but that every single ounce of that will go from Asian markets to the UK, which currently receives around about 100,000kg of beef (which I'm sure if you do the maths is an absolutely tiny %)?

The intellectual debate matters not. And UK farmers are worried as in link.
The only math being done is government in the those red wall constituencies versus spaffing off farmers in the shires, win win chicken dinner.

UK farmers sound alarm over Australia trade talks

Labour accuse the government of a "sell-out" amid reports of a Cabinet rift over free trade deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The intellectual debate matters not. And UK farmers are worried as in link.
The only math being done is government in the those red wall constituencies versus spaffing off farmers in the shires, win win chicken dinner.

UK farmers sound alarm over Australia trade talks

Labour accuse the government of a "sell-out" amid reports of a Cabinet rift over free trade deal.

www.bbc.co.uk

I was just asking for data, that's all. It's not a bad thing to back up opinions with actual evidence.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

TBF they are hardly likely to say it’s because of how the food is produced, even though that’s far more likely to be a factor than Chad not having the barbie hot enough.

That's getting into conspiracy territory though, isn't it?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I was just asking for data, that's all. It's not a bad thing to back up opinions with actual evidence.

Who needs data, flood a market with same and similar product the price goes down, we are on the race to bottom, whether we like it or not...

Kangaroo meat is very nice - reminded me of venison. Emu is excellent too, never tried Koala, not sure it marketable outside Wuhan.

 

[tsubaki]

That's getting into conspiracy territory though, isn't it?

Well no, the process by which regulation is captured by industry (and then made less effective) is a well known and well evidenced one (as we see here with the financial industry, and in the US with various industries but especially food).

Given the importance of the sector to the Australian economy, why would anyone expect it to be properly regulated?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Who needs data, flood a market with same and similar product the price goes down, we are on the race to bottom, whether we like it or not...

Kangaroo meat is very nice - reminded me of venison. Emu is excellent too, never tried Koala, not sure it marketable outside Wuhan.

As I pointed out, Australia only exports about 60% of our total beef consumption, and the vast majority of that goes to Asia. The idea that they'd flood our market would require them to double their meat production and send all of that here. That doesn't seem likely to me. This deal is being massively blown out of proportion.