Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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Would have a tendency to believe May even Cameron on vaccine contracts and exports, despite my ardent opposition to their political beliefs, but Johnson a known liar, and his Government have swaggered about threatening to break the law, would not trust him or government to walk my dog and pick up its poo.
 
Would have a tendency to believe May even Cameron on vaccine contracts and exports, despite my ardent opposition to their political beliefs, but Johnson a known liar, and his Government have swaggered about threatening to break the law, would not trust him or government to walk my dog and pick up its poo.
Wouldn't trust the other two either, saying that can't think of any current political of any colour, red blue ect, I have any great faith in these days.
 
Wouldn't trust the other two either, saying that can't think of any current political of any colour, red blue ect, I have any great faith in these days.

Do believe most even their conviction when its matter of the state and geopolitics, rather than machinations of daily politics and policy. Johnson nah, on anything.
 
I think you’ll find that it’s people who love the UK who don’t want it caught up in the smug, corrupt, incompetent repressive Tory sh*t show that post on this forum as well as those wrapped in the flag at any price.
Not many Tories on here, but a few are all over anything the UK does in relation to the EU, on both sides of the fence, no leeway at all for some.
 
If the EU wishes to ban the export of vaccines to the U.K., they already have the wherewithal to do so. And the U.K. has the wherewithal to ban the export of components to Pfizer. This is not the issue. The issue is one of stealing the manufacturing assets of a company and stealing the IPR in order to manufacture AZ product for the EU. That is illegal, unless they enact their ‘wartime’ clause, then suffer worldwide reputational vilification.

I am not fretting over any ban from the EU, because it looks like we are over the majority of any input from Europe and now have it in our own hands regarding the vaccines. In fact I love the idea of the EU doing precisely what you think they should do, because that will cement our withdrawal from this bureaucratic nonsense and will put a halt to Remainer voices. The U.K. and it’s people cannot lose here, the only ones that lose are the EU body itself and the poor souls in Europe who may lose their lives for the Political benefit of VDL and Macron......

“Never interfere with your enemy when he is making a mistake.” - A quote from Napoleon. How ironic...
 
Wolfgang Munchau, the founder of the EuroIntelligence group.....

'EU leaders keep discrediting AstraZeneca to distract from their own mistakes and to puncture the notion of a Brexit-induced British success story.

'In their vengeful spite, EU leaders damaged the only strategy they had for getting out of the mess . . . They resort to what they know best — the blame game. It was always like this, but this time it costs thousands of lives.'

It’s not enough that they fail, everyone else must fail as well so as not to show them up. And this is what they do. They don’t try to improve themselves, they try to drag the U.K. down to their level. This happens in every industry, they call it a ‘level playing field’ .....
 
I am unaware that they have even submitted it for approval.....
The USA weren't happy with the original AZ results because no tests were carried out in the US. So they said they were going to undertake their own evaluation, but in the meantime they ordered quite a big batch of the AZ vaccine and there is also a plant over there manufacturing the vaccine under license. I don't think the results of the US tests are officially out yet, but AZ, probably because they're under so much threat at the moment on several fronts, have announced today that the tests are complete and very positive. So it is expected that US approval will be forthcoming.
 
The USA weren't happy with the original AZ results because no tests were carried out in the US. So they said they were going to undertake their own evaluation, but in the meantime they ordered quite a big batch of the AZ vaccine and there is also a plant over there manufacturing the vaccine under license. I don't think the results of the US tests are officially out yet, but AZ, probably because they're under so much threat at the moment on several fronts, have announced today that the tests are complete and very positive. So it is expected that US approval will be forthcoming.
 
I am not fretting over any ban from the EU, because it looks like we are over the majority of any input from Europe and now have it in our own hands regarding the vaccines. In fact I love the idea of the EU doing precisely what you think they should do, because that will cement our withdrawal from this bureaucratic nonsense and will put a halt to Remainer voices. The U.K. and it’s people cannot lose here, the only ones that lose are the EU body itself and the poor souls in Europe who may lose their lives for the Political benefit of VDL and Macron......
Pete.

I really don't think it's doing any good to make this a penis swinging contest between the UK and the EU. This is so much more than that.

I also wouldn't take too much notice of that article you posted the other day about how much vaccine we have and where it was sourced. That article was in the Mail who will literally print anything if it means they get footfall or sell papers. It may be accurate but I wouldn't bet money on it. I'd rather trust stuff I read in the Beano than the Mail lol
 
And they still don't have approval in the US, which is only the biggest drugs market in the world. Great bunch of lads though.
It should also be remembered that AZ didn't even apply for EMA approval until January. They've been an utter shambles.

They’ve been sloppy from top to bottom through all this as a pharma company and partner. It’s such a huge pity because Oxford is a great vaccine.

Maybe that’s the problem the Oxford vaccine, is to good and too big for AZ.

There was a dramatic turn around last summer in Oxford and who they would be teaming up with, I’ve heard a few political conspiracies on that. But I won’t go in them now or @peteblue will be chasing me around the forum with today’s daily Telegraph for the rest of the night.
I find your attacks on Astra Zeneca quite astonishing to be honest. At worse, they can only be accused of entering into contracts that are too big for them.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that they are manufacturing this vaccine at cost. Admittedly this is an Oxford University vaccine and the research costs would have come from their funding. But between Oxford University, Astra Zeneca, and the UK Government which helped with initial funding, it was agreed that AZ would not make any profit out of the vaccine. They would also make it available to other producers across the world on license on the proviso that it's none profit making.

As regards AZ in particular, they are putting aside a large portion of their output capacity to a non profit making project. Just sit back for a moment and acknowledge this. Give them the credit they're due. They didn't need to do this but they did. The Oxford vaccine is a simple to use, easy to store and transport vaccine that is ideally suited to roll out to the third world countries that can't facilitate or afford the much more expensive alternatives. It stands to reason that AZ profits have to have taken a hit by this, at a time when their competitors like Pfizer, J&J and Moderna are all making huge profits from their vaccines.

We're criticising them for not putting extra resources into meeting their contractual obligations, but why should we expect them to switch manpower from other areas of the business that are delivering a profit for them, especially when all their competition are probably making billions from it. They probably expected more outlets to take up the license and produce the vaccine, but guess what, why should they when they can make profits manufacturing something else.

But bizarrely its AZ that are coming out of this with their reputation in tatters when the other money grabbing corporations are calculating how big the shareholders dividend is going to be this year.

The really annoying thing is that the world has at it's fingertips the wherewithal to roll out a worldwide vaccination project, but it won't happen because corporate profits come first. Eventually, the real powers that be will realise that we won't be out of this until there is effective world wide vaccination program, and eventually will do something about it. But how many extra people will die in he meantime?

The rich nations of the world need to come together on this, but so far the only vaccine and only major corporate entity that has signed up to it are the ones getting slaughtered, whilst the likes of the US and EU are either threatening or have actually imposed bans on exports of vaccines and vaccine materials. You couldn't make it up.
 
I find your attacks on Astra Zeneca quite astonishing to be honest. At worse, they can only be accused of entering into contracts that are too big for them.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that they are manufacturing this vaccine at cost. Admittedly this is an Oxford University vaccine and the research costs would have come from their funding. But between Oxford University, Astra Zeneca, and the UK Government which helped with initial funding, it was agreed that AZ would not make any profit out of the vaccine. They would also make it available to other producers across the world on license on the proviso that it's none profit making.

As regards AZ in particular, they are putting aside a large portion of their output capacity to a non profit making project. Just sit back for a moment and acknowledge this. Give them the credit they're due. They didn't need to do this but they did. The Oxford vaccine is a simple to use, easy to store and transport vaccine that is ideally suited to roll out to the third world countries that can't facilitate or afford the much more expensive alternatives. It stands to reason that AZ profits have to have taken a hit by this, at a time when their competitors like Pfizer, J&J and Moderna are all making huge profits from their vaccines.

We're criticising them for not putting extra resources into meeting their contractual obligations, but why should we expect them to switch manpower from other areas of the business that are delivering a profit for them, especially when all their competition are probably making billions from it. They probably expected more outlets to take up the license and produce the vaccine, but guess what, why should they when they can make profits manufacturing something else.

But bizarrely its AZ that are coming out of this with their reputation in tatters when the other money grabbing corporations are calculating how big the shareholders dividend is going to be this year.

The really annoying thing is that the world has at it's fingertips the wherewithal to roll out a worldwide vaccination project, but it won't happen because corporate profits come first. Eventually, the real powers that be will realise that we won't be out of this until there is effective world wide vaccination program, and eventually will do something about it. But how many extra people will die in he meantime?

The rich nations of the world need to come together on this, but so far the only vaccine and only major corporate entity that has signed up to it are the ones getting slaughtered, whilst the likes of the US and EU are either threatening or have actually imposed bans on exports of vaccines and vaccine materials. You couldn't make it up.

You are entitled to your opinion mate, i dont share it, nor the white knitieng that goes on about AZ as a company. The Oxford team are a great bunch i can tell you, but AZ, poor company.

Look, its a well known thing in circles. That Merek one of the biggest drug/vaccine manufacturing company's in the world struck a deal with Oxford on the right aultiristic reasons similar to the mindset of Oxford team, that deal was vetoed by the British government to ensure prepherential treatment and control of a domestic supply chain, Oxford were then funneled in to AZ as the Uk Governments preferred partner. The whole process is murky and self interested, the job of work was always certainly always to big for AZ and many peoples health and lives were impacted as a result.

What started out as an aulteristic concept, has morphed now into self interest, vaccine battles, duplicitous contract arrangements and subsequent health impact around the world.

The Oxford vaccine is a great vaccine, but AZ are a poor company and partner and are only involved due to political self interests.
 
I find your attacks on Astra Zeneca quite astonishing to be honest. At worse, they can only be accused of entering into contracts that are too big for them.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that they are manufacturing this vaccine at cost. Admittedly this is an Oxford University vaccine and the research costs would have come from their funding. But between Oxford University, Astra Zeneca, and the UK Government which helped with initial funding, it was agreed that AZ would not make any profit out of the vaccine. They would also make it available to other producers across the world on license on the proviso that it's none profit making.

As regards AZ in particular, they are putting aside a large portion of their output capacity to a non profit making project. Just sit back for a moment and acknowledge this. Give them the credit they're due. They didn't need to do this but they did. The Oxford vaccine is a simple to use, easy to store and transport vaccine that is ideally suited to roll out to the third world countries that can't facilitate or afford the much more expensive alternatives. It stands to reason that AZ profits have to have taken a hit by this, at a time when their competitors like Pfizer, J&J and Moderna are all making huge profits from their vaccines.

We're criticising them for not putting extra resources into meeting their contractual obligations, but why should we expect them to switch manpower from other areas of the business that are delivering a profit for them, especially when all their competition are probably making billions from it. They probably expected more outlets to take up the license and produce the vaccine, but guess what, why should they when they can make profits manufacturing something else.

But bizarrely its AZ that are coming out of this with their reputation in tatters when the other money grabbing corporations are calculating how big the shareholders dividend is going to be this year.

The really annoying thing is that the world has at it's fingertips the wherewithal to roll out a worldwide vaccination project, but it won't happen because corporate profits come first. Eventually, the real powers that be will realise that we won't be out of this until there is effective world wide vaccination program, and eventually will do something about it. But how many extra people will die in he meantime?

The rich nations of the world need to come together on this, but so far the only vaccine and only major corporate entity that has signed up to it are the ones getting slaughtered, whilst the likes of the US and EU are either threatening or have actually imposed bans on exports of vaccines and vaccine materials. You couldn't make it up.
The problem is that Johnson and his mob have wrapped everything about the project in the Union flag so it's tantamount to treason to say they've messed up in anyway, and a diplomatic incident if any other government expresses reservations about them. As @Neiler says, the vaccine development done by the Oxford team has been fantastic, but AZs job in the partnership has been to help with trials, get it licensed, and manufacture it at scale. You could make a reasonable argument for all three aspects having encountered major issues.

People have been critical because the trials didn't have suitable participants, whether Americans for the Americans or the elderly for the Europeans. That rests with AZ. They hadn't submitted an application to the EMA until the new year, and to America until January. That was after both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Again, that's down to AZ.

Lastly, despite receiving several hundred million Euros to build a manufacturing capability in Europe, they've clearly failed to do so adequately. We can't say that's down to their altruism with the vaccine because the capacity building has pretty much been bankrolled by the EU in Europe and by the UK government here. It's their job to use their expertise in drug manufacturing to do so smoothly, and it's been anything but.

I quite agree with you btw about it being shameful that Pfizer and Moderna aren't working with COVAX to ensure the whole world gets vaccinated, and it is wrong for them to be profiting from what is a global crisis. No doubts about that from me. We can be critical of them for that while also being critical of AZ for failing in other aspects, surely?
 
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