Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

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    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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The problems we are encountering are because the U.K. tries to be pragmatic and fair. The EU does not even consider ‘fairness’ nor ‘pragmatism’, it only knows rules, bureaucracy and power. Our politicians still do not understand this and until they do the U.K. will be disadvantaged in any dealings with the EU.

The EU apply the rules from day one, we give a six month exemption; we give equivalence to EU financial operations, the EU refuses to give financial equivalence to the U.K. unless we sign up to their rules. It’s a joke. Boris, Gove and co, need to grow a pair and just play the same game until sense breaks out, which could be a while by the looks of it. But rolling over and asking for extensions for this and that will not work. It’s like putting May back in charge of negotiations. The EU is a protectionist bloc for heavens sake, put up some stupid bureaucracy for the import of cars, wine, cheese, fruit, machinery etc into the U.K. so they can see what it’s like. Play silly buggers with their fishing fleet, check to make sure no ham or cheese foodstuffs are being eaten on boats in U.K. waters, check fishing nets with a micrometer and remove access for any minor infringement.

If they are overhampering our exports and refusing our finance, then what is the point of any trade deal with the EU. Do the same as they are, develop our own products and capability and reduce the inward flow. Develop a self sufficiency strategy and gain growth through buying British. Trade with everyone except the EU because it’s a one way street at the moment. Being nice really isn’t helping, stand up to them now or we never will......
 
peteblue said:
The problems we are encountering are because the U.K. tries to be pragmatic and fair. The EU does not even consider ‘fairness’ nor ‘pragmatism’, it only knows rules, bureaucracy and power. Our politicians still do not understand this and until they do the U.K. will be disadvantaged in any dealings with the EU.

The EU apply the rules from day one, we give a six month exemption; we give equivalence to EU financial operations, the EU refuses to give financial equivalence to the U.K. unless we sign up to their rules. It’s a joke. Boris, Gove and co, need to grow a pair and just play the same game until sense breaks out, which could be a while by the looks of it. But rolling over and asking for extensions for this and that will not work. It’s like putting May back in charge of negotiations. The EU is a protectionist bloc for heavens sake, put up some stupid bureaucracy for the import of cars, wine, cheese, fruit, machinery etc into the U.K. so they can see what it’s like. Play silly buggers with their fishing fleet, check to make sure no ham or cheese foodstuffs are being eaten on boats in U.K. waters, check fishing nets with a micrometer and remove access for any minor infringement.

If they are overhampering our exports and refusing our finance, then what is the point of any trade deal with the EU. Do the same as they are, develop our own products and capability and reduce the inward flow. Develop a self sufficiency strategy and gain growth through buying British. Trade with everyone except the EU because it’s a one way street at the moment. Being nice really isn’t helping, stand up to them now or we never will......
Click to expand...

Please tell me you are not still harping on with your little Englander fair play nonsense. Nothing about British behaviour over its history suggests it is any more pragmatic or any fairer.
All trade deals are on some level protectionist by their very nature. To say that a trade deal we have just left is being protectionist (when it is much less protectionist than others) is crazy.

It is not possible for Britain to become self sufficient in any spell of time that won't lead to huge issues here and this country is not a country that can be accused of being nice.
 
dead_soft said:
Please tell me you are not still harping on with your little Englander fair play nonsense. Nothing about British behaviour over its history suggests it is any more pragmatic or any fairer.
All trade deals are on some level protectionist by their very nature. To say that a trade deal we have just left is being protectionist (when it is much less protectionist than others) is crazy.

It is not possible for Britain to become self sufficient in any spell of time that won't lead to huge issues here and this country is not a country that can be accused of being nice.
Click to expand...

Of course any form of self sufficiency can only ever achieve a certain % . But it is possible to ensure that certain strategic elements can stand on their own. The recent Covid vaccine issues is one such point. But no matter who we align with, whoever we believe our ‘friends’ are, it is always sensible to have an answer in your back pocket.....
 
peteblue said:
Of course any form of self sufficiency can only ever achieve a certain % . But it is possible to ensure that certain strategic elements can stand on their own. The recent Covid vaccine issues is one such point. But no matter who we align with, whoever we believe our ‘friends’ are, it is always sensible to have an answer in your back pocket.....
Click to expand...

What do you mean? What 'answer in your back pocket'? It is impossible for Britain to exist on its own or have any answers in any pockets. It's never been self-sufficient, it's always relied on others, whether that is through forced labour or otherwise. It's got nothing to do with believing who friends are or any nonsense like that.
 
peteblue said:
The problems we are encountering are because the U.K. tries to be pragmatic and fair. The EU does not even consider ‘fairness’ nor ‘pragmatism’, it only knows rules, bureaucracy and power. Our politicians still do not understand this and until they do the U.K. will be disadvantaged in any dealings with the EU.

The EU apply the rules from day one, we give a six month exemption; we give equivalence to EU financial operations, the EU refuses to give financial equivalence to the U.K. unless we sign up to their rules. It’s a joke. Boris, Gove and co, need to grow a pair and just play the same game until sense breaks out, which could be a while by the looks of it. But rolling over and asking for extensions for this and that will not work. It’s like putting May back in charge of negotiations. The EU is a protectionist bloc for heavens sake, put up some stupid bureaucracy for the import of cars, wine, cheese, fruit, machinery etc into the U.K. so they can see what it’s like. Play silly buggers with their fishing fleet, check to make sure no ham or cheese foodstuffs are being eaten on boats in U.K. waters, check fishing nets with a micrometer and remove access for any minor infringement.

If they are overhampering our exports and refusing our finance, then what is the point of any trade deal with the EU. Do the same as they are, develop our own products and capability and reduce the inward flow. Develop a self sufficiency strategy and gain growth through buying British. Trade with everyone except the EU because it’s a one way street at the moment. Being nice really isn’t helping, stand up to them now or we never will......
Click to expand...
So much deflection in one post.
 
peteblue said:
The problems we are encountering are because the U.K. tries to be pragmatic and fair. The EU does not even consider ‘fairness’ nor ‘pragmatism’, it only knows rules, bureaucracy and power. Our politicians still do not understand this and until they do the U.K. will be disadvantaged in any dealings with the EU.

The EU apply the rules from day one, we give a six month exemption; we give equivalence to EU financial operations, the EU refuses to give financial equivalence to the U.K. unless we sign up to their rules. It’s a joke. Boris, Gove and co, need to grow a pair and just play the same game until sense breaks out, which could be a while by the looks of it. But rolling over and asking for extensions for this and that will not work. It’s like putting May back in charge of negotiations. The EU is a protectionist bloc for heavens sake, put up some stupid bureaucracy for the import of cars, wine, cheese, fruit, machinery etc into the U.K. so they can see what it’s like. Play silly buggers with their fishing fleet, check to make sure no ham or cheese foodstuffs are being eaten on boats in U.K. waters, check fishing nets with a micrometer and remove access for any minor infringement.

If they are overhampering our exports and refusing our finance, then what is the point of any trade deal with the EU. Do the same as they are, develop our own products and capability and reduce the inward flow. Develop a self sufficiency strategy and gain growth through buying British. Trade with everyone except the EU because it’s a one way street at the moment. Being nice really isn’t helping, stand up to them now or we never will......
Click to expand...
So the deal that was a few weeks ago being lauded as a huge triumph turns out to be a turkey and it's "still" the EU's fault? You're a Tory puppet Pete, accept it.
 
peteblue said:
Of course any form of self sufficiency can only ever achieve a certain % . But it is possible to ensure that certain strategic elements can stand on their own. The recent Covid vaccine issues is one such point. But no matter who we align with, whoever we believe our ‘friends’ are, it is always sensible to have an answer in your back pocket.....
Click to expand...
The vaccines that have been developed by global teams, tested around the world, and manufactured internationally you mean? "Standing on our own" is an utter nonsense, and especially from the supposed party of free trade and business. Adam Smith would turn in his grave.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
The vaccines that have been developed by global teams, tested around the world, and manufactured internationally you mean? "Standing on our own" is an utter nonsense, and especially from the supposed party of free trade and business. Adam Smith would turn in his grave.
Click to expand...

The U.K. does more collaborative work than anyone, in all sectors, and of course it’s impossible to do everything or make everything ourselves. However, it is not impossible to ensure that ‘mission critical’ activities are done here while continuing to trade with the world. Putin has recently warned the EU about potential sanctions over the Navalny affair, he said ‘if you want peace prepare for war’. This happens to be another way of putting what I suggested, because if you are not prepared to respond with equal strength and commitment then there will never be peace.

In business you always want a win/win scenario because nothing else is sustainable in the long run. The EU need to understand that a win/lose with its biggest trading partner cannot and will not be tolerated for long. As many of you keep bringing up about ‘oven ready deals’ and ‘easiest deal’ etc, it actually should have been an easy deal, yet in their zeal to put one over on the U.K. to ‘protect their market‘ and the ‘project’ they made it difficult, and in its implementation and their intransigence will end up cutting off their noses to spite their faces. It’s sad that it’s turning out that way, but life goes on.

The sooner we reduce any reliance from within the EU the better, because quite simply they are not our friends
 
peteblue said:
The EU need to understand that a win/lose with its biggest trading partner cannot and will not be tolerated for long.
Click to expand...

I believe there is a break clause in the agreement that either side can trigger if they think that things are not working out as they should in the deal.

If situations continue as they are I wouldn't be surprised if the break clause isn't brought up at some point.
 
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