Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

I think they've been had over by AstraZenica, pete.

I think the best outcome now would be for everyone that AstraZenica has contracts with for this vaccine to sit down together, share details of what has been agreed in each other's contracts and then collectively threaten to impale the CEO, the board and anyone else involved unless the vaccines that we all have paid for, invested in and in our case actually mainly developed for them.

Otherwise we just get played off against each other.

And that would be fine if that’s what the contracts said. But the EU’s contract only gives them best endeavours. The EU have quickly brought in a law to stop the export of vaccine. They have been arguing this with AZ for days. If they had a watertight contract in would already be in front of a court, but it isn’t is it, I wonder why.....

 

[peteblue]

To be fair Pete, there is a bit of difference believing staying in the EU was a good thing like most on here , and the few that cant see anything wrong with the EU
I don't think there are really many on here that fall into that category,
To there credit the remainers on here are giving the EU stick as well today.

Only one or two....

 

[Jebus_lives]

For a previously sensible and measured EU commission, currently making the Johnson Government look measured and sensible is an incredible achievement.

 

[tsubaki]

And that would be fine if that’s what the contracts said. But the EU’s contract only gives them best endeavours. The EU have quickly brought in a law to stop the export of vaccine. They have been arguing this with AZ for days. If they had a watertight contract in would already be in front of a court, but it isn’t is it, I wonder why.....

The AZ contract is here, pete. The term is "best reasonable efforts" and it is basically defined as the steps that a firm the size of AstraZenica would take in order to create a vaccine in times of extraordinary urgency.

They also specifically promised not to have signed up to any contract that would impinge on the delivery of this one. AZ have signed up to lots of other contracts, including ours, that they are delivering on.

As for why it isn't in front of the courts, this has brewed up over less than a week. If they don't get what was paid for, I am sure it will end up there (and I'm sure the EU will win).

 

[Jebus_lives]

To be fair Pete, there is a bit of difference believing staying in the EU was a good thing like most on here , and the few that cant see anything wrong with the EU
I don't think there are really many on here that fall into that category,
To there credit the remainers on here are giving the EU stick as well today.

Probably worth also saying that a failure of the EU to secure vaccination is not something to be triumphant about. Reduced vaccine capacity will lead to more death and prolonged recovery.

It would serve the UK well to be considered in it's approach and act with a degree of humility and support, for those moments where we might rely on those qualities in the EU.

 

[tsubaki]

Probably worth also saying that a failure of the EU to secure vaccination is not something to be triumphant about. Reduced vaccine capacity will lead to more death and prolonged recovery.

It would serve the UK well to be considered in it's approach and act with a degree of humility and support, for those moments where we might rely on those qualities in the EU.

this is what I meant when I suggested that everyone who has a deal with AZ should sit around a table and find out what has been promised to each

 

[Tubey]

Probably worth also saying that a failure of the EU to secure vaccination is not something to be triumphant about. Reduced vaccine capacity will lead to more death and prolonged recovery.

It would serve the UK well to be considered in it's approach and act with a degree of humility and support, for those moments where we might rely on those qualities in the EU.

Indeed, but here's the thing - our government have done nothing wrong here. They've refused to rule out supplying excess vaccines, they've not came out and been aggressive - to be honest I think they're like the rest of us; completely baffled by the EU's actions. Just stunned, bewildered silence.

Closest any antagonism has got has been from the DUP but, honestly, can you blame them? What the EU has done with Ireland, after literally years of complaining about the prospect of a hard border, is beyond belief.

The tweet Dan quoted before nails it - to all appearances, the EU have lost the plot. It looks in every way like they know they've screwed up the acquisition and rollout and are frantically thrashing around looking for a political way out, not arsed even if their actions and comments result in vaccine hesitancy and more deaths in the case of Macron.

As a Remain voter, I'm stunned.

 

[Tubey]

this is what I meant when I suggested that everyone who has a deal with AZ should sit around a table and find out what has been promised to each

I said this yesterday, but there's only one aggressive party here - the EU.

Striking out at the UK is utter madness. They should have been calmly in dialogue and kept politics out of it - they did the exact opposite.

 

[peteblue]

The AZ contract is here, pete. The term is "best reasonable efforts" and it is basically defined as the steps that a firm the size of AstraZenica would take in order to create a vaccine in times of extraordinary urgency.

They also specifically promised not to have signed up to any contract that would impinge on the delivery of this one. AZ have signed up to lots of other contracts, including ours, that they are delivering on.

As for why it isn't in front of the courts, this has brewed up over less than a week. If they don't get what was paid for, I am sure it will end up there (and I'm sure the EU will win).

I do understand ‘best reasonable efforts’, and I don’t gamble, but I would guarantee that the EU would get laughed out of any independent court....the EU need to put up or shut up, instead they have dragged the U.K. into this and have now unbelievably dragged NI, the ROI , and with them the peace process into it. When the DUP and SF, the ROI and the U.K. all agree, you know that the EU have dropped one.....

 

[tsubaki]

I do understand ‘best reasonable efforts’, and I don’t gamble, but I would guarantee that the EU would get laughed out of any independent court....the EU need to put up or shut up, instead they have dragged the U.K. into this and have now unbelievably dragged NI, the ROI , and with them the peace process into it. When the DUP and SF, the ROI and the U.K. all agree, you know that the EU have dropped one.....

They absolutely wouldn't, pete. AZ signed up to deliver something urgently; they've not done it. They signed up to say they had no other contracts that would affect the delivery of these doses; even the CEO says that isn't true.

I agree this step (over the border) is daft, given that its not used to transport vaccines anyway.

 

[edge]

The AZ contract is here, pete. The term is "best reasonable efforts" and it is basically defined as the steps that a firm the size of AstraZenica would take in order to create a vaccine in times of extraordinary urgency.

They also specifically promised not to have signed up to any contract that would impinge on the delivery of this one. AZ have signed up to lots of other contracts, including ours, that they are delivering on.

As for why it isn't in front of the courts, this has brewed up over less than a week. If they don't get what was paid for, I am sure it will end up there (and I'm sure the EU will win).

The UK had a deal that included expanding AZ capacity which are government paid for and help with the clinical trials, the price was the first 100 million vaccines made here were for UK use.
This was before the EU signed their contract and they would have been well aware of,that, now they cock up and it's all of a sudden AZ fault?
We have some a similar deal with the vaccine that is being made up north , this time we get the first 60 million vaccines .
Do we say you cant give it to the EU before asking are permission incase they try and encroach on that deal.

 

[tsubaki]

The UK had a deal that included expanding AZ capacity which are government paid for and help with the clinical trials, the price was the first 100 million vaccines made here were for UK use.
This was before the EU signed their contract and they would have been well aware of,that, now they cock up and it's all of a sudden AZ fault?
We have some a similar deal with the vaccine that is being made up north , this time we get the first 60 million vaccines .
Do we say you cant give it to the EU before asking are permission incase they try and encroach on that deal.

edge AZ specifically signed up to say there were no contracts that they had signed up to that would impede the delivery of their doses. Now it seems that, actually, there is.

I agree 100% that AZ have to honour our deal; my point is that AZ have to honour the one with the EU.

 

[peteblue]

They absolutely wouldn't, pete. AZ signed up to deliver something urgently; they've not done it. They signed up to say they had no other contracts that would affect the delivery of these doses; even the CEO says that isn't true.

I agree this step (over the border) is daft, given that its not used to transport vaccines anyway.

It all depends on interpretation. You use the word ’urgently’, in some manufacturing businesses ‘urgently’ takes 5 years......

 

[peteblue]

edge AZ specifically signed up to say there were no contracts that they had signed up to that would impede the delivery of their doses. Now it seems that, actually, there is.

I agree 100% that AZ have to honour our deal; my point is that AZ have to honour the one with the EU.

They are honouring the Eu contract, well at least the contract that the EU signed.....

 

[Jebus_lives]

Oh dear.