Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Jebus_lives]

It really does though.

Can you explain why?

 

[Tubey]

Can you explain why?

I have, but I'll do so again - you know where so many countries have ordered the vaccine now? Imagine another did - Burkina Faso or whoever already hasn't - and they put an order in for 500 million doses.

Now because of the timing of that order, they can't "take doses away" from countries that ordered first, as that is absurd - you'd be breaching every prior contract you'd made. So Burkina Faso would go to the "back of the line".

It's the same situation here. As Soriot said:

“The UK agreement was reached in June, three months before the European one,” [Soriot] said. “As you could imagine, the UK government said the supply coming out of the UK supply chain would go for the UK first. Basically, that’s how it is.”

He's basically saying it's business. When the UK ordered, AZ allocated a section of their supply chain. When the EU ordered, AZ allocated another section of their supply chain.

A part of the EU chain broke. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. You can't then re-allocate the UK allocation because that would break another contract.

So timing, clearly, matters.

 

[Billy Dean]

I have, but I'll do so again - you know where so many countries have ordered the vaccine now? Imagine another did - Burkina Faso or whoever already hasn't - and they put an order in for 500 million doses.

Now because of the timing of that order, they can't "take doses away" from countries that ordered first, as that is absurd - you'd be breaching every prior contract you'd made. So Burkina Faso would go to the "back of the line".

It's the same situation here. As Soriot said:



He's basically saying it's business. When the UK ordered, AZ allocated a section of their supply chain. When the EU ordered, AZ allocated another section of their supply chain.

A part of the EU chain broke. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. You can't then re-allocate the UK allocation because that would break another contract.

So timing, clearly, matters.

If Burkina Faso signed a legal contract guaranteeing them a supply by a certain date, that was then not met, they would probably kick off, regardless of who ordered before. If the Burkina Faso agreement was only on a "best effort/estimate basis" then it would be tough luck for them I guess - and I think this is what we all want to know in this real life case.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I have, but I'll do so again - you know where so many countries have ordered the vaccine now? Imagine another did - Burkina Faso or whoever already hasn't - and they put an order in for 500 million doses.

It would depend on the specific terms of the contract.

Now because of the timing of that order, they can't "take doses away" from countries that ordered first, as that is absurd - you'd be breaching every prior contract you'd made. So Burkina Faso would go to the "back of the line".

They could take doses away from another contract (which may then be breachable in it's own right) but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be in breach of the new contract depending upon the terms.

It's the same situation here. As Soriot said:



He's basically saying it's business. When the UK ordered, AZ allocated a section of their supply chain. When the EU ordered, AZ allocated another section of their supply chain.

Again, we really can't say with any certainty because the contracts are subject to confidentiality. But it is possible that the UK could have sought to ring fence capacity in the UK and the EU have it included in their agreement. It could also be true that neither have it as part of the agreement. It could also be that it's included as part of the UK agreement, but not the EU agreement; but that the EU will seek to rely on it as evidence that their contract is being breached because 'capacity' is not interrupted.

A part of the EU chain broke. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. You can't then re-allocate the UK allocation because that would break another contract.

Again we don't know what's included in the supply chain, other than the EU have an APA to build capacity. They have been told capacity cannot be met, despite the UK capacity being met.

So timing, clearly, matters.

Only in so much as the inability of AZ to meet EU demand is determined by it's need to meet UK demand.

It may well be that the EU don't get their vaccines, but the option seems to be either (using the EU position):

AZ distribute UK production to the EU
AZ breach the contract with the EU
AZ rapidly increase capacity by increasing production as part of 'best efforts'.

 

[Tubey]

If Burkina Faso signed a legal contract guaranteeing them a supply by a certain date, that was then not met, they would probably kick off, regardless of who ordered before. If the Burkina Faso agreement was only on a "best effort/estimate basis" then it would be tough luck for them I guess - and I think this is what we all want to know in this real life case.

Yes but the timing would be dependent on the supply chain allocated holding up. The point being made is that UK contract was earlier and therefore utilises different supply chains.

The alternative is AZ accepting all orders all over the shop and breaching every contract they took. They can't do that, they have to allocate logistics.

You seem to be missing my overall point though - I'm not saying AZ haven't breached their contract; they have. I'm simply saying it has sod all to do with an entirely separate UK contract. You've said it's evidence AZ haven't put in best efforts - it isn't. It's entirely, completely separate.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I'll need plenty more evidence than the UK government stating something as true.

In this thread, of all threads, are we expected to take this Government at it's word?

As posted above, the company running the Wrexham facility say that they have an arrangement with the government themselves, not AZ

With AstraZeneca deal, Wockhardt joins U.K.'s coronavirus vaccine manufacturing push

India-based Wockhardt has signed up to complete fill and finish work on millions of COVID-19 vaccine doses for exclusive use in the U.K., including AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford's frontr | Mumbai, India-based pharma Wockhardt has signed up for fill-finish duties on AstraZeneca's...

www.fiercepharma.com

Which begs the question why the Commission folk think it would be on the table?

 

[Billy Dean]

Yes but the timing would be dependent on the supply chain allocated holding up. The point being made is that UK contract was earlier and therefore utilises different supply chains.

The alternative is AZ accepting all orders all over the shop and breaching every contract they took. They can't do that, they have to allocate logistics.

You seem to be missing my overall point though - I'm not saying AZ haven't breached their contract; they have. I'm simply saying it has sod all to do with an entirely separate UK contract. You've said it's evidence AZ haven't put in best efforts - it isn't. It's entirely, completely separate.

I haven't said AZ haven't put in best efforts. Just that they're not honouring what they guaranteed. One of the 2 parties onbviously don't understand what's in their own contract, so it should be interesting to see what they reveal publically. By the time both parties have redacted what they want it probably won't be worth reading anyway.

 

[Jebus_lives]

As posted above, the company running the Wrexham facility say that they have an arrangement with the government themselves, not AZ

With AstraZeneca deal, Wockhardt joins U.K.'s coronavirus vaccine manufacturing push

India-based Wockhardt has signed up to complete fill and finish work on millions of COVID-19 vaccine doses for exclusive use in the U.K., including AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford's frontr | Mumbai, India-based pharma Wockhardt has signed up for fill-finish duties on AstraZeneca's...

www.fiercepharma.com

Which begs the question why the Commission folk think it would be on the table?

I don't think they are claiming that. I think they are using it as evidence to say that in line with the 'best efforts' clause, given capacity is available for UK distribution, that it could be capacity applied to their contract strengthening their claim against AZ.

 

[Jebus_lives]

I haven't said AZ haven't put in best efforts. Just that they're not honouring what they guaranteed. One of the 2 parties onbviously don't understand what's in their own contract, so it should be interesting to see what they reveal publically. By the time both parties have redacted what they want it probably won't be worth reading anyway.

It depends what the best efforts applied to..
If it is to establish capacity, then as capacity can clearly be demonstrated, relying on 'best efforts' as a defence will fall away

 

[peteblue]

As posted above, the company running the Wrexham facility say that they have an arrangement with the government themselves, not AZ

With AstraZeneca deal, Wockhardt joins U.K.'s coronavirus vaccine manufacturing push

India-based Wockhardt has signed up to complete fill and finish work on millions of COVID-19 vaccine doses for exclusive use in the U.K., including AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford's frontr | Mumbai, India-based pharma Wockhardt has signed up for fill-finish duties on AstraZeneca's...

www.fiercepharma.com

Which begs the question why the Commission folk think it would be on the table?

You’ll work it out Bruce....

 

[peteblue]

I haven't said AZ haven't put in best efforts. Just that they're not honouring what they guaranteed. One of the 2 parties onbviously don't understand what's in their own contract, so it should be interesting to see what they reveal publically. By the time both parties have redacted what they want it probably won't be worth reading anyway.

If it’s best efforts it’s not guaranteed, the clue is in the wording. The problem is the EU don‘t like the words...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

This might be of interest

COVID vaccine supply is causing an EU crisis – so what’s being done to speed up production?

Production limits the rate at which vaccines can be rolled out, and is at the heart of the current disagreements between the UK and EU.

theconversation.com

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You’ll work it out Bruce....

Pete, you've added next to no substance to this discussion so a little less of the condescension.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

While her husband is off on his trotters the wife struggles...

Post-Brexit trading 'difficult' for my business - Samantha Cameron - BBC News

 

[Jebus_lives]

While her husband is off on his trotters the wife struggles...

Post-Brexit trading 'difficult' for my business - Samantha Cameron - BBC News

It has the makings of a good haiku this.