Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

The EU is showing itself up to the world as a selfish spoilt bully, trying to blame anyone for its own laggard performance. It’s embarrassing tbh.....

 

[peteblue]

I’d just like to say I haven’t got a clue what’s going on here anymore.

Hows it going in Portugal....

 

[Tubey]

Precisely why the EU are annoyed.

They have every right to be, but they should look closer to home in their own processes for the reasoning. They were slow, and thus now susceptible to a hiccup in the supply chain.

They've compounded the problem by getting angry and pointing fingers at the UK and saying "WHAT ABOUT THEM?" when it has absolutely sod all to do with our contract with AZ. The UK, more nimble and agile, was able to procure doses faster, roll out faster, approve faster. It is what it is.

 

[Tubey]

Well there’s loads of evidence that AZ aren’t complying with the EU contract - as has been said loads already.

I just think it’s mad that people are willing to give them a pass and blame the EU when the fault lies, and really can only lie if you accept the production problems issue, with AZ.

It's about the reasoning why the EU is more affected by this than the UK though. It's not absolving AZ of blame - they've clearly breached the contract, albeit not purposefully in all likelihood - but the EU by being late compounded the issue I think.

As said above, pointing to the UK and moaning is doing them no favours - instead, they should acknowledged they were late (at least internally acknowledge it if not publicly), acknowledge AZ have screwed up the EU supply chain but it's not related to the UK one, and then negotiate with the UK for excess vaccines to rectify the hit they'll take somewhat.

 

[peteblue]

Of course - no one is disputing they've breached contract. They have. The only question is to the reasoning for it.

And the reasoning is almost certainly not that vaccines destined for the EU have been diverted to the UK. And rectifying the problem shouldn't involved vaccines destined to the UK being withheld or demanded by the EU.

It's a supply issue, the EU have got unlucky but it's compounded by them being comparatively late on the order. They know it, and they hate it, so they're scrambling around for blame.

I would be very much surprised if AZ has breached their contract. No doubt it will come out in the wash, but it’s unlikely that any commercial undertaking of this nature would leave itself open to any form of damages unless set by limitation.....

 

[Jebus_lives]

They have every right to be, but they should look closer to home in their own processes for the reasoning. They were slow, and thus now susceptible to a hiccup in the supply chain.

They've compounded the problem by getting angry and pointing fingers at the UK and saying "WHAT ABOUT THEM?" when it has absolutely sod all to do with our contract with AZ. The UK, more nimble and agile, was able to procure doses faster, roll out faster, approve faster. It is what it is.

I honestly struggle to see why you are painting this as 'good vs bad'. There are multiple things that can be true and ultimately at odds with each other.

Yes the UK approved earlier and placed an order earlier.

The EU have a contract which specifically asks to build capacity to meet demand for vaccines.

The UK supply is not adversely affected, which indicates AZ do have the capacity to meet the EU order, they are just giving priority to the UK.

So either a) AZ potentially didn't build enough capacity (possibly covered under 'best efforts') in which case the EU could ask why b) the UK supply is being ring fenced, but the EU supply is not being met, and the UK production (which may or may not form part of the agreement) could be shared to meet demand in the EU.

Why anyone is annoyed at the UK or the EU in this instance is strange...it is purely an issue over what AZ have committed to.

The 'first in line' has no bearing.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Hows it going in Portugal....

Total lockdown here. Gonna be the same for the next few weeks. I’m meant to carry proof of address on me at all times and leave the house only for essential activities.
The government did very well here first wave then they’ve been hit a lot harder this time round. Cases rocketing.
Would probably have got the vaccine quicker if I’d stayed in the U.K. but time will tell.
It’s a bit tough just now but I’m not missing it getting dark at 4 with freezing rain.

 

[Jebus_lives]

It's about the reasoning why the EU is more affected by this than the UK though. It's not absolving AZ of blame - they've clearly breached the contract, albeit not purposefully in all likelihood - but the EU by being late compounded the issue I think.

As said above, pointing to the UK and moaning is doing them no favours - instead, they should acknowledged they were late (at least internally acknowledge it if not publicly), acknowledge AZ have screwed up the EU supply chain but it's not related to the UK one, and then negotiate with the UK for excess vaccines to rectify the hit they'll take somewhat.

Lateness for an order doesn't really matter when you cinsider the Advance Purchase Agreement, because it's an agreement specifically to build capacity to meet demand - regardless of when the order was made.

By signing that it's a commitment to building supply so that when the EU seek supply it is met.

 

[Tubey]

I honestly struggle to see why you are painting this as 'good vs bad'. There are multiple things that can be true and ultimately at odds with each other.

Yes the UK approved earlier and placed an order earlier.

The EU have a contract which specifically asks to build capacity to meet demand for vaccines.

The UK supply is not adversely affected, which indicates AZ do have the capacity to meet the EU order, they are just giving priority to the UK.

So either a) AZ potentially didn't build enough capacity (possibly covered under 'best efforts') in which case the EU could ask why b) the UK supply is being ring fenced, but the EU supply is not being met, and the UK production (which may or may not form part of the agreement) could be shared to meet demand in the EU.

Why anyone is annoyed at the UK or the EU in this instance is strange...it is purely an issue over what AZ have committed to.

The 'first in line' has no bearing.

Nah the bold bit is the part where in my view you've gone wrong.

It's not priority, like they've shifted to prefer the UK once issues arose - they haven't. They're simply proceeding with the contracted plan for the UK, as that allocated supply chain was unaffected.

So priority is the wrong word.

If AZ took away from the plan for UK vaccines, they then breach a contract with the UK. Deliberately. They can't do that.

As said, people are 'annoyed' at the EU because they're casting around seeking to blame based on the UK supply chain being unaffected. Which is political.

 

[peteblue]

What gets me in all this is the stupidity of the EU approach to all this. Once the shortfall was known they could have asked the U.K. to help out, and I’m pretty sure Boris would have done so. But no, they start getting upset, shout at AZ, drag the U.K. into the argument, slag off the Oxford vaccine and make themselves look like idiots. The U.K. of course no has no option but to tell them to sod off as it would now be political suicide. The old saying about getting too big for your boots is quite apt. One or two of you may even remember that I highlighted this type of aggressive bullying behaviour as one of my reasons for wanting out, because one day they will do similar with the Russians over something and they don’t play as nicely as we do......

 

[peteblue]

Total lockdown here. Gonna be the same for the next few weeks. I’m meant to carry proof of address on me at all times and leave the house only for essential activities.
The government did very well here first wave then they’ve been hit a lot harder this time round. Cases rocketing.
Would probably have got the vaccine quicker if I’d stayed in the U.K. but time will tell.
It’s a bit tough just now but I’m not missing it getting dark at 4 with freezing rain.

At least you will be churning out the paintings

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I didn't say there was, and indeed said the opposite - EU factory vaccines have gone to the UK, and vice versa.

What I'm saying is that, logistically, it's self-apparent that UK vaccines will primarily be made at UK facilities, and indeed AZ have confirmed that is the case. So when fulfilling the orders, AZ have apportioned the vaccine production in set ways for each order, like any business would.

The EU suggestion that there's no 'hierarchy' of the factories is a nonsense - of course there is. Every business organises production and logistics to an optimum way. The idea the EU order was to be fulfilled equally between all factories is stupid; the UK production would have been fenced off to meet UK demand first, as the order was three months earlier, and similarly the EU production would be primarily for the EU, which is why a hiccup there has adversely affected them much more.

The way out of this isn't for the EU to blame their own failings on an unavoidable issue with AZ (who, yes, have breached the contract, albeit through no deliberate action of their own) but to open discussions with the UK government to see if there's a chance the comparative oversupply can be smoothed out by the UK giving vaccines bilaterally to the EU on a short term basis.

Those factories in the UK aren't owned by the UK any more than the ones in Belgium, the Netherlands et al are owned by the EU. Why do you keep referring to them as UK and EU facilities? The Belgian factory is run by Novasep - https://www.novasep.com/ -, the Welsh factory by Wockhardt - https://www.wockhardt.co.uk/, so unless AZ have an agreement with the UK government that all output from the Wockhardt factory is going to them then it's frankly got naff all to do with the UK government. The deal is between AZ and the EU and it's down to AZ to fulfil the order to the best of their ability.

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Well thats the Brexit argument settled then.

Trying to stop vaccines reaching UK will practically be an act of war and the severance between UK and EU will be permanent with a swell of public opinion against an organisation who wishes death upon the UK to circumnavigate their own logistical ineptitude.

 

[Tubey]

Those factories in the UK aren't owned by the UK any more than the ones in Belgium, the Netherlands et al are owned by the EU. Why do you keep referring to them as UK and EU facilities? The Belgian factory is run by Novasep - https://www.novasep.com/ -, the Welsh factory by Wockhardt - https://www.wockhardt.co.uk/, so unless AZ have an agreement with the UK government that all output from the Wockhardt factory is going to them then it's frankly got naff all to do with the UK government. The deal is between AZ and the EU and it's down to AZ to fulfil the order to the best of their ability.

Because they're... well, based in the UK and EU.

In terms of logistics, that's obviously relevant.

And the UK does have that agreement with AZ on domestic vaccine production. AZ have confirmed that.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's not up to the EU to tell AZ how to organise their business.

The EU simply ask for the vaccine, AZ fulfil it. If they don't, they breach contract, but the EU can't then dictate that AZ breach another contract to fulfil their one.

If (and it's a massive if) AZ told the EU the UK factories would supply a set amount of vaccines and they are now not doing so, that's a deliberate breach. However, as they've stated there's no "hierarchy" of factories, they haven't done that, whereas the UK did by ringfencing domestic vaccine production in their contract.

They are, therefore, two separate contracts, and the fulfilment of the UK one has no bearing on the non-fulfilment of the EU one.

Where is your evidence for that?