Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

There is only the EU who have raised the spectre of vaccine nationalism, and that purely to try and shift blame for their own incompetence onto AZ.

Can you also remember the spat between Italy and Germany. When Italy got hit first and hardest and Germany immediately put a block on the export of any PPE Because they wanted it for itself. I would love the countries of the world to be addressing this for the world, but the hypocracy from the EU is mind blowing.....

So you're okay if the vaccines produced in the UK are used to fulfil AZ's contract with the EU27?

 

[Billy Dean]

It's perhaps worth remembering also that they negotiated as a block to ensure that smaller nations weren't either put to the back of the queue or forced to deal with unproven vaccines from China and Russia, as the Serbs are doing.

Yes exactly, which is probably not much comfort to those in the richer EU nations who could've gone it alone, but I totally understand why the EU negotiated as a block, as well as wanting full rather than emergency authorisation before releasing vaccines.

Edit: probably IMO where the EU went wrong is not ordering enough when it agreed the initial contracts and focusing perhaps too much on savings. Here maybe the richer nations could've shown some solidarity with the smaller ones and made a bigger contribution. But I'm kind of getting into the realm of speculation.

 

[tsubaki]

Interesting summary of media coverage;

Formerly pro EU newspapers turn on the bloc over 'vaccine nationalism' and 'playground bully' tactics

Even the UK’s formerly pro-European newspapers have rounded on the EU over the Commission’s threats to halt vaccine exports and its call for Astra Zeneca to divert UK vaccine production to Europe. The FT, which has long been a supporter of UK EU membership, writes in its leader: “…the commission...

pressgazette.co.uk

the Mail is more conciliatory on Brexit than it was?

 

[peteblue]

Imagine the worry and reality that developing nations are facing now, it is heartbreaking. Imagine being in a country that cannot lockdown because the gov does not have the financial resource to pay people to stay at home, so the population have to go out and work in order to eat/survive.

I'm not particularly pleased with the EU on this latest farce and the vaccine programme looks like it might be one thing that our gov got right but from a bigger picture perspective, this is a moral test for us all as a species that might just have a sting in the tail if we don't do the right thing.

Absolutely 100% this.....

 

[Jebus_lives]

It's a biological product. It'll be a best efforts kind of deal as they say. But it'll be from that factory; the UK will have a contract dealing with UK facilities.

Similarly, if the UK chain had gone wrong, we'd have no recourse to the EU supply chain due to the contract.

It's two things - the EU being three months late on getting it sorted, allowing less time to iron out issues, and the EU being slow on the rollout overall due to regulation.

The product type (not sure why a biological product would be given any different status as to ownership and supply) and the EU schedule for vaccine rollout* aren't really in question.

The question is, when you look at the contract (which none of us have seen) are there assurances about supply, What benefit the pre-finance will give, are vaccines produced in the UK which form part of a wider production framework being held back, if so who is holding them back?

I'm guessing here, but I think AZ have over promised and the UK have asked for priority and the EU aren't happy about that.

*Admittedly not ideal

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Imagine the worry and reality that developing nations are facing now, it is heartbreaking. Imagine being in a country that cannot lockdown because the gov does not have the financial resource to pay people to stay at home, so the population have to go out and work in order to eat/survive.

I'm not particularly pleased with the EU on this latest farce and the vaccine programme looks like it might be one thing that our gov got right but from a bigger picture perspective, this is a moral test for us all as a species that might just have a sting in the tail if we don't do the right thing.

It's also a reality check for those who continually demonise big pharma - Labour have been really guilty of this.

A few weeks back, but more articulate than I could ever put it;

In truth, the Covid-19 crisis has revealed not how badly private enterprise works, but how well. There is only one organisation capable of delivering a vaccine against a novel virus on a global scale in record time – the multinational corporation. Why? Because it requires three skills. Science and technology. Logistics. And capital. You can find some of those elsewhere – research institutes have the know-how, and governments can access the capital – but only huge private firms can combine all three. And let there be no doubt, the combination is what you need. The science doesn’t matter if you can’t test and manufacture at scale, but nor does the money if you haven’t got the technology.

We have seen in the rest of Europe what can go wrong when your starting point is that big business is evil. The EU hijacked control of vaccine procurement, and seems to have been mainly worried about making sure it got value for money. The result? It didn’t order enough vaccines, or the right sort, and is scrambling around for extra supplies, while Germany can’t understand why it hasn’t got enough of what was, after all, a typically brilliant German invention, and the President of Cyprus has been reduced to seeing if he can cadge some spare supplies from the hyper-efficient Israelis. That could have very easily been us.

Until Sir Keir has the guts to rid his party of the infantile anti-business, anti-innovation posturing that still dominates its thinking, he can’t be expected to be taken seriously. If he had been in charge, we wouldn’t be arguing about how many shots we could deliver every day, or how we could accelerate that. We wouldn’t have a vaccine at all – and we would be stuck in lockdown forever.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

What language? Give it a rest. I have no issue with Polish people or Muslims.

Stop pushing an agenda that isn't there

Liar.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yes exactly, which is probably not much comfort to those in the richer EU nations who could've gone it alone, but I totally understand why the EU negotiated as a block, as well as wanting full rather than emergency authorisation before releasing vaccines.

Edit: probably IMO where the EU went wrong is not ordering enough when it agreed the initial contracts and focusing perhaps too much on savings. Here maybe the richer nations could've shown some solidarity with the smaller ones and made a bigger contribution. But I'm kind of getting into the realm of speculation.

It's quite possible as well that the Commission decided to renegotiate the deal that had already been struck with Germany, Netherlands et al specifically in order to get the price down a bit (which they managed to) because they're well aware that not all members of the block have bottomless funds to throw at this.

It's not surprising that a big and wealthy country with almost limitless funds is going to steal a march in terms of agreeing on the purchase. Where the Commission has been notably slower is in approving the vaccines, and I wouldn't be "that" surprised if they don't only license the AZ vaccine for under 65s (which would somewhat put the cat amongst the pigeons).

 

[Jebus_lives]

So you're okay if the vaccines produced in the UK are used to fulfil AZ's contract with the EU27?

Perhaps we should give back the UK vaccines which were imported from the EU in the early phases of our rollout because of a lack of 'UK manufacturing capacity'

It effectively boils down to a contract dispute between AZ and the EU - 'best endeavours'

 

[Jebus_lives]

It's quite possible as well that the Commission decided to renegotiate the deal that had already been struck with Germany, Netherlands et al specifically in order to get the price down a bit (which they managed to) because they're well aware that not all members of the block have bottomless funds to throw at this.

It's not surprising that a big and wealthy country with almost limitless funds is going to steal a march in terms of agreeing on the purchase. Where the Commission has been notably slower is in approving the vaccines, and I wouldn't be "that" surprised if they don't only license the AZ vaccine for under 65s (which would somewhat put the cat amongst the pigeons).

Difference in approach is noticeable. UK can leverage power from Health Sec to make quick decisions - Commission cannot do that by virtue of the system..

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's also a reality check for those who continually demonise big pharma - Labour have been really guilty of this.

A few weeks back, but more articulate than I could ever put it;

You can reference it being from the Telegraph, we won't judge you

Seriously though, I'm not sure we can seriously say that the Commission didn't order enough because they clearly ordered far more than they're getting, which in itself surely prompts us to question the efficacy of the drug company's logistical prowess? And for the removal of doubt, these supply issues are affecting us too. I mentioned earlier in the week that our trust is limiting the availability of the AZ vaccine due to shortages. It's not "just" the EU that are feeling the pinch.

 

[Tubey]

The product type (not sure why a biological product would be given any different status as to ownership and supply) and the EU schedule for vaccine rollout* aren't really in question.

The question is, when you look at the contract (which none of us have seen) are there assurances about supply, What benefit the pre-finance will give, are vaccines produced in the UK which form part of a wider production framework being held back, if so who is holding them back?

I'm guessing here, but I think AZ have over promised and the UK have asked for priority and the EU aren't happy about that.

*Admittedly not ideal

They've said best efforts. That will be the contract.

So they'll fulfil based on orders received to the best of their ability. The UK ordered three months earlier and have preference, the EU have yet to even approve it. So the UK received their order quicker, when a bottleneck has occurred it's affected the EU considerably more severely.

AZ, understandably, would have used the EU plant for primarily EU production of the vaccine and the UK plant primarily for UK production, which is just common sense.

Have we seen the contract? No. But there's nothing in what AZ are saying that doesn't hold up - they aren't selling elsewhere for a bigger profit, there's no motive to downgrade the shipment otherwise. It just looks like they're fulfilling private contracts with governments, and one contract was placed earlier so was less affected, the other was placed later so is more affected.

The EU, rather than admit blame on their processes - of which there is ample evidence - is trying to claim - without evidence - that AZ are preferring one buyer over another. This isn't like making PPE, which is predictable; it's a biological product and thus is subject to very high standards, if something goes wrong with production, it goes wrong.

Also, from a purely business view, even if AZ did for some reason prioritise the UK, I couldn't blame them - why make and stockpile millions of the doses when it hasn't been approved yet, even now nearly a month after the UK? I don't think they have done that, but simultaneously as a business I don't think they automatically have to be beholden to the EU being slow.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

You can reference it being from the Telegraph, we won't judge you

Seriously though, I'm not sure we can seriously say that the Commission didn't order enough because they clearly ordered far more than they're getting, which in itself surely prompts us to question the efficacy of the drug company's logistical prowess? And for the removal of doubt, these supply issues are affecting us too. I mentioned earlier in the week that our trust is limiting the availability of the AZ vaccine due to shortages. It's not "just" the EU that are feeling the pinch.

Of course, but even the most Euroblind should be able to see the EU have completely messed up and their finger pointing is pretty desperate.

 

[Jebus_lives]

You can reference it being from the Telegraph, we won't judge you

Seriously though, I'm not sure we can seriously say that the Commission didn't order enough because they clearly ordered far more than they're getting, which in itself surely prompts us to question the efficacy of the drug company's logistical prowess? And for the removal of doubt, these supply issues are affecting us too. I mentioned earlier in the week that our trust is limiting the availability of the AZ vaccine due to shortages. It's not "just" the EU that are feeling the pinch.

The EU have over ordered. It's not an issue of order, it's an issue about supply.

 

[Billy Dean]

Of course, but even the most Euroblind should be able to see the EU have completely messed up and their finger pointing is pretty desperate.

Is that not irrelevant? A contract was signed and is not being honoured. If it's true that it is based on "best effort" then it's another story. But no one except those who have seen the contract know that. Either AZ or the EU is wrong or has misunderstood, but we don't know which.