Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Tubey]

Of course, but even the most Euroblind should be able to see the EU have completely messed up and their finger pointing is pretty desperate.

People seem to just jump on the side they're on regardless of facts.

"I'm pro-EU so I'll defend the EU."

No. If they've screwed up, they've screwed up. They ordered too late due to their internal bureaucracy, and it's made them wide open to issues if the supply lines have a problem early doors. The UK ordered early, and avoided getting hit as hard by supply issues.

It's really that simple. It's like being first in line for a PS5 and getting one, and then the person who turns up a few hours later moaning at the store for selling the PS5 to the person first in line.

 

[Tubey]

Is that not irrelevant? A contract was signed and is not being honoured. If it's true that it is based on "best effort" then it's another story. But no one except those who have seen the contract know that. Either AZ or the EU is wrong or has misunderstood, but we don't know which.

What motive does AZ have for failing to deliver on a contract?

They aren't selling at a profit. This has caused them reputational damage. They have no motive whatsoever for doing it.

Their explanation makes sense; the EU are ranting because they can't defend their position, so they attempt to apportion blame elsewhere.

It's an Occam's Razor thing - the most likely explanation is probably the right one. And the most likely explanation is AZ have been hit by unexpected supply problems, and the EU - slow in ordering, approving and rolling out - have been adversely affected more than the UK, who ordered early, approved and rolled out quicker.

 

[Jebus_lives]

They've said best efforts. That will be the contract.

So they'll fulfil based on orders received to the best of their ability. The UK ordered three months earlier and have preference, the EU have yet to even approve it. So the UK received their order quicker, when a bottleneck has occurred it's affected the EU considerably more severely.

AZ, understandably, would have used the EU plant for primarily EU production of the vaccine and the UK plant primarily for UK production, which is just common sense.

Have we seen the contract? No. But there's nothing in what AZ are saying that doesn't hold up - they aren't selling elsewhere for a bigger profit, there's no motive to downgrade the shipment otherwise. It just looks like they're fulfilling private contracts with governments, and one contract was placed earlier so was less affected, the other was placed later so is more affected.

The EU, rather than admit blame on their processes - of which there is ample evidence - is trying to claim - without evidence - that AZ are preferring one buyer over another. This isn't like making PPE, which is predictable; it's a biological product and thus is subject to very high standards, if something goes wrong with production, it goes wrong.

Also, from a purely business view, even if AZ did for some reason prioritise the UK, I couldn't blame them - why make and stockpile millions of the doses when it hasn't been approved yet, even now nearly a month after the UK? I don't think they have done that, but simultaneously as a business I don't think they automatically have to be beholden to the EU being slow.

'Best Endeavors'

Again, it really is a matter for AZ and the EU to resolve. If the EU are correct then AZ should devote additional activity, more expense devoted to production to meet EU contract. The UK is effectively a third party in it*

A lot will depend on what framework AZ have signed up to for their production - and given the divert of vaccines from the EU to the UK it would suggest that it is not a national one (but again hard to know).

baffling really that for something as important as this, a Best Endeavors clause is being relied upon.

 

[Jebus_lives]

What motive does AZ have for failing to deliver on a contract?

They aren't selling at a profit. This has caused them reputational damage. They have no motive whatsoever for doing it.

Their explanation makes sense; the EU are ranting because they can't defend their position, so they attempt to apportion blame elsewhere.

It's an Occam's Razor thing - the most likely explanation is probably the right one. And the most likely explanation is AZ have been hit by unexpected supply problems, and the EU - slow in ordering, approving and rolling out - have been adversely affected more than the UK, who ordered early, approved and rolled out quicker.

They just can't physically do it?
It will be too costly?

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

It's also a reality check for those who continually demonise big pharma - Labour have been really guilty of this.

A few weeks back, but more articulate than I could ever put it;

You might need to secure the walls of the forum as Daves's head is going to explode when he reads that quote!

 

[Tubey]

'Best Endeavors'

Again, it really is a matter for AZ and the EU to resolve. If the EU are correct then AZ should devote additional activity, more expense devoted to production to meet EU contract. The UK is effectively a third party in it*

A lot will depend on what framework AZ have signed up to for their production - and given the divert of vaccines from the EU to the UK it would suggest that it is not a national one (but again hard to know).

baffling really that for something as important as this, a Best Endeavors clause is being relied upon.

There's an international shortage of fill and finish, the vaccine has been developed and approved at warp speed - the very nature of it is subject to the manufacturing of it being done to the best of their ability; hiccups were expected.

Vaccines haven't been diverted from the EU to the UK; some have been made in the EU to fulfil an order for the UK.

 

[Jebus_lives]

People seem to just jump on the side they're on regardless of facts.

"I'm pro-EU so I'll defend the EU."

No. If they've screwed up, they've screwed up. They ordered too late due to their internal bureaucracy, and it's made them wide open to issues if the supply lines have a problem early doors. The UK ordered early, and avoided getting hit as hard by supply issues.

It's really that simple. It's like being first in line for a PS5 and getting one, and then the person who turns up a few hours later moaning at the store for selling the PS5 to the person first in line.

It's not like buying a PS5 at all.

The problem seems to be that the fulfillment of the EU contract will interfere with the fulfillment of the contract to the UK.

 

[Billy Dean]

What motive does AZ have for failing to deliver on a contract?

They aren't selling at a profit. This has caused them reputational damage. They have no motive whatsoever for doing it.

Their explanation makes sense; the EU are ranting because they can't defend their position, so they attempt to apportion blame elsewhere.

It's an Occam's Razor thing - the most likely explanation is probably the right one. And the most likely explanation is AZ have been hit by unexpected supply problems, and the EU - slow in ordering, approving and rolling out - have been adversely affected more than the UK, who ordered early, approved and rolled out quicker.

I'm not questioning AZ's motives. It's just a simple fact of a legal contract not being fulfilled. If they can't honour it and supply what they agreed then fair enough, but then the party not getting what they contracted the supplier for would then react I suppose. How well the EU has managed the vaccine rollout has no bearing on a legal contract. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Tubey]

They just can't physically do it?
It will be too costly?

Well, first point - yeah, that's what they've admitted. Hence the bottleneck. They're addressing it, but really to be expected. I don't think people really grasp the scale of this; it's unprecedented.

Too costly? No. They're selling at the same price point everywhere at a non-profit.

 

[Jebus_lives]

There's an international shortage of fill and finish, the vaccine has been developed and approved at warp speed - the very nature of it is subject to the manufacturing of it being done to the best of their ability; hiccups were expected.

Vaccines haven't been diverted from the EU to the UK; some have been made in the EU to fulfil an order for the UK.

Isn't that the entire point - from both sides of the fence?

 

[Tubey]

It's not like buying a PS5 at all.

The problem seems to be that the fulfillment of the EU contract will interfere with the fulfillment of the contract to the UK.

Erm... yeah? What right does the EU have to telling AZ to not fulfil a contract with the UK when the UK ordered first? They were first in line - it's equitable that they distribute that way.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Well, first point - yeah, that's what they've admitted. Hence the bottleneck. They're addressing it, but really to be expected. I don't think people really grasp the scale of this; it's unprecedented.

Too costly? No. They're selling at the same price point everywhere at a non-profit.

Too costly to meet the demand required.

 

[Tubey]

Too costly to meet the demand required.

They're selling it at cost. If you mean too costly to scale up, then fine, but if that were the case they simply wouldn't scale up or change the price. They haven't, which indicates they're simply telling the truth - production issue, UK ordered earlier, less affected, EU ordered later, more affected.

 

[xena]

Yes it should because that was in the contract the uk signed with AZ. The EU were late to the party.... because of their ridiculous ideals of being a super state.

Don't think there's much doubt the eu stuffed up big time but once we get our old and vulnerable sorted in next couple of weeks i wouldn't have any problem sending some uk vaccine over to help we're all in this together.

 

[Tubey]

Isn't that the entire point - from both sides of the fence?

No, because the UK supply hasn't taken away from the EU supply, but because there's an issue with EU supply, the EU want to take away from the UK supply.

So the EU wants to punish the UK for being more efficient, rather than own their own mess.

I'm not a nationalist by any stretch of the imagination, hate Johnson, hate this Tory government, actually pro-EU - but you have to judge the facts on their own merits and take subjectivity out of it as much as possible.