Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

Speaking to the in-laws in Czech this week about Brexit, and a number of them were quite supportive of it. That is until they found out that for many Brexiters, the motivation was largely to stop people like them from coming to the UK.

Interesting piece in the FT on the realities though.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dd666fb8-833c-11e6-a29c-6e7d9515ad15.html#axzz4LIZQWhJp


Research by the FT shows the scale of the UK-based banks using passporting to sell into the EU. The group of 96 banks has assets of £7.5tn, directly employ more than 590,000 people and make annual profits of around £50bn.


Bank executives say EU passporting makes up 20-25 per cent of the London business of international investment banks, including the five big US players, who have assets of £1.5tn and staff of 21,000 in their UK-based banks, and the two big Swiss, which have assets of £415bn and staff of more than 6,000.

And:

…John Holland-Kaye, chief executive of Heathrow, warned that leaving the EU customs union would “add massive overhead” for businesses and port operators. “Can you imagine operating something like the Euro[tunnel] if you had to suddenly build in all these checks in place? It would be completely unmanageable,” he told the FT.

This piece might also be of interest to those who think we will easily makeup any drop in trade with the EU by 'trading with the rest of the world'.

 

[peteblue]

Why did you tell your in-laws that Brexit was about stopping them coming to the UK ?.......

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Speaking to the in-laws in Czech this week about Brexit, and a number of them were quite supportive of it. That is until they found out that for many Brexiters, the motivation was largely to stop people like them from coming to the UK.

Interesting piece in the FT on the realities though.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dd666fb8-833c-11e6-a29c-6e7d9515ad15.html#axzz4LIZQWhJp


Research by the FT shows the scale of the UK-based banks using passporting to sell into the EU. The group of 96 banks has assets of £7.5tn, directly employ more than 590,000 people and make annual profits of around £50bn.


Bank executives say EU passporting makes up 20-25 per cent of the London business of international investment banks, including the five big US players, who have assets of £1.5tn and staff of 21,000 in their UK-based banks, and the two big Swiss, which have assets of £415bn and staff of more than 6,000.

And:

…John Holland-Kaye, chief executive of Heathrow, warned that leaving the EU customs union would “add massive overhead” for businesses and port operators. “Can you imagine operating something like the Euro[tunnel] if you had to suddenly build in all these checks in place? It would be completely unmanageable,” he told the FT.

This piece might also be of interest to those who think we will easily makeup any drop in trade with the EU by 'trading with the rest of the world'.

I take it you explained to your in-laws that the Brexit vote only happened because of the extremely broad church it encompassed, which involved people of both the right and the left on the political spectrum. Many of whom had wildly different reasons for voting as they did, the freedom of movement being only one of them. I hope you didn't spread the all to common myth that the entire vote was motivated by racism. Because aside from being grossly untrue it also demonstrates that you and the other remainers have learned nothing from the result and continue to look down on and dismiss the perfectly valid concerns of the over 17 and a half million of your fellow countrymen and woman. Such condescension was a major contributing factor as to why Brexit won in the first place. Oh BTW why did you tell your in-laws they would be unable to come to the UK because of Brexit? No such decision has been reached to my knowledge.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Why did you tell your in-laws that Brexit was about stopping them coming to the UK ?.......

I take it you explained to your in-laws that the Brexit vote only happened because of the extremely broad church it encompassed, which involved people of both the right and the left on the political spectrum. Many of whom had wildly different reasons for voting as they did, the freedom of movement being only one of them. I hope you didn't spread the all to common myth that the entire vote was motivated by racism. Because aside from being grossly untrue it also demonstrates that you and the other remainers have learned nothing from the result and continue to look down on and dismiss the perfectly valid concerns of the over 17 and a half million of your fellow countrymen and woman. Such condescension was a major contributing factor as to why Brexit won in the first place. Oh BTW why did you tell your in-laws they would be unable to come to the UK because of Brexit? No such decision has been reached to my knowledge.

Of course immigration wasn't the only reason and for such huge numbers there are undoubtedly going to be a great many reasons for doing so, but it's churlish to suggest that immigration wasn't a huge factor in the vote to leave, with most of the rhetoric around immigration against migrants from eastern Europe as opposed to those from, say, Germany or France.

Should I have stayed quiet and not said that my partner, and friends of ours, have been asked a number of times when they're 'going home' since the vote?

I would have loved to have explained the other two pieces in the post you've both quoted but given my level of Czech I reckon I'd have got as blank a response as you've both given them

 

[davids]

Seems the road to Brexit may not be paved with gold.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-rights-citizens-living-working-Britain.html
And maybe even our Nordic friends might have a say......Norway is not a member of the EU, but it has access to the single market from its membership of the European Economic Area (EEA), which groups all EU members and three of the four Efta members: Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, but not Switzerland."Norway’s European affairs minister, Elisabeth Vik Aspaker, reflecting a growing debate in the country following the Brexit vote in the UK, told the Aftenposten newspaper: “It’s not certain that it would be a good idea to let a big country into this organisation. It would shift the balance, which is not necessarily in Norway’s interests.”.She also confirmed that the UK could only join if there were unanimous agreement, thereby providing Norway with a veto

 

[neil999]

re single market, i assume there will be a vote in parliament for this? which will surely mean we will stay, or can the government just 'decide' to come out of that??

 

[Bruce Wayne]

re single market, i assume there will be a vote in parliament for this? which will surely mean we will stay, or can the government just 'decide' to come out of that??

I believe that this information is known by those who voted to leave. @peteblue what's the situation?

 

[neil999]

I believe that this information is known by those who voted to leave. @peteblue what's the situation?

yep, he will clear all this confusion up, he's a straight talking solutions kind of guy

 

[peteblue]

Seems the road to Brexit may not be paved with gold.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-rights-citizens-living-working-Britain.html
And maybe even our Nordic friends might have a say......Norway is not a member of the EU, but it has access to the single market from its membership of the European Economic Area (EEA), which groups all EU members and three of the four Efta members: Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein, but not Switzerland."Norway’s European affairs minister, Elisabeth Vik Aspaker, reflecting a growing debate in the country following the Brexit vote in the UK, told the Aftenposten newspaper: “It’s not certain that it would be a good idea to let a big country into this organisation. It would shift the balance, which is not necessarily in Norway’s interests.”.She also confirmed that the UK could only join if there were unanimous agreement, thereby providing Norway with a veto

Norway is the largest member of that group. It may not wish to be the second largest (by some considerable margin). If they want the UK's economic negotiating strength then fine, if not then they can look on as we get a better deal.

In terms of the East Europeans, they would like access to the UK or at least ensure that those Eastern Europeans already here have similar rights to the Uk populace, which is not unreasonable, and will no doubt come out during negotiations.

It seems like everyman and his dog is threatening to veto any deal at the moment, with the EU, the MEP's, various groupings like the east Europeans, Italy etc, all making threats as they attempt to gain a voice. However, one thing is clear, once we submit our letter of notification to leave, even if everyone veto's everything, two years later we are out then they can all point fingers at each other........

 

[peteblue]

re single market, i assume there will be a vote in parliament for this? which will surely mean we will stay, or can the government just 'decide' to come out of that??

The PM can send the letter without recourse to Parliament and the Government has already disclosed the legal reasons why it can do this.

In terms of a final settlement I would imagine that it would be a parliamentary vote but even then I believe the Government still has the authority to do a deal on our behalf. Let's not forget that even if we agree nothing, two years after we inform the Eu of our intention to leave, then we are out.

I'm sure our legal eagles will tell us differently though.......

 

[peteblue]

I believe that this information is known by those who voted to leave. @peteblue what's the situation?

I assume this information is known by every member of parliament as they agreed the rules of the referendum.....

 

[neil999]

The PM can send the letter without recourse to Parliament and the Government has already disclosed the legal reasons why it can do this.

In terms of a final settlement I would imagine that it would be a parliamentary vote but even then I believe the Government still has the authority to do a deal on our behalf. Let's not forget that even if we agree nothing, two years after we inform the Eu of our intention to leave, then we are out.

I'm sure our legal eagles will tell us differently though.......

wait and see then, its quite possible then that the tory right will push for no single market and then we are back to the original arguments again..

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Of course immigration wasn't the only reason and for such huge numbers there are undoubtedly going to be a great many reasons for doing so, but it's churlish to suggest that immigration wasn't a huge factor in the vote to leave, with most of the rhetoric around immigration against migrants from eastern Europe as opposed to those from, say, Germany or France.

Should I have stayed quiet and not said that my partner, and friends of ours, have been asked a number of times when they're 'going home' since the vote?

I would have loved to have explained the other two pieces in the post you've both quoted but given my level of Czech I reckon I'd have got as blank a response as you've both given them

I am willing to bet just about everything I own that if the same number of unskilled French or German workers (who have a similar wage standard as us and are therefore unlikely to move here in large numbers) had arrived in the last decade as have eastern europeans they would of been met with the same concern. I seem to recall that you have mentioned on this thread some time ago that your partner works in the NHS, she does not therefore qualify as unskilled. Quite the opposite in fact, she is an asset to UK. You seem to of fallen into the trap of believing the verbal diarrhoea that spills from the BBC and other national news outlets. Controlled Immigration itself was never the issue, if your referring to the freedom of movement act (aka complete chaos) then yes ill grant you it was a major point but it really needn't of been. The issue was and still is the free and uncontrolled movement of large numbers of unskilled workers who jeopardize large numbers of unskilled British workers. If we lived in a utopia were every country had the same standard of wage and living conditions perhaps it would be workable but sadly we don't and I don't believe it's truly workable anyway. Do you really think the EU permits free movement because it cares about its people? You don't think it's the worst type of capitalist who only permits people to go wherever they want because it means cheaper Labour for their corporate friends?

I find it quite sad if any of your friends have been told to "go home" or received abuse of any kind. Myself and many of my friends (those of us who told people how we have voted at any rate) have received much abuse and in the case of one of my friends actual physical threat's. These animals are on both sides of the vote but I'm happy to say they are in reality a small number.

 

[neil999]

I assume this information is known by every member of parliament as they agreed the rules of the referendum.....

dont be silly, we are voting 'in' so no need for any of that...FFS!

 

[neil999]

I am willing to bet just about everything I own that if the same number of unskilled French or German workers (who have a similar wage standard as us and are therefore unlikely to move here in large numbers) had arrived in the last decade as have eastern europeans they would of been met with the same concern. I seem to recall that you have mentioned on this thread some time ago that your partner works in the NHS, she does not therefore qualify as unskilled. Quite the opposite in fact, she is an asset to UK. You seem to of fallen into the trap of believing the verbal diarrhoea that spills from the BBC and other national news outlets. Controlled Immigration itself was never the issue, if your referring to the freedom of movement act (aka complete chaos) then yes ill grant you it was a major point but it really needn't of been. The issue was and still is the free and uncontrolled movement of large numbers of unskilled workers who jeopardize large numbers of unskilled British workers. If we lived in a utopia were every country had the same standard of wage and living conditions perhaps it would be workable but sadly we don't and I don't believe it's truly workable anyway. Do you really think the EU permits free movement because it cares about its people? You don't think it's the worst type of capitalist who only permits people to go wherever they want because it means cheaper Labour for their corporate friends?

I find it quite sad if any of your friends have been told to "go home" or received abuse of any kind. Myself and many of my friends (those of us who told people how we have voted at any rate) have received much abuse and in the case of one of my friends actual physical threat's. These animals are on both sides of the vote but I'm happy to say they are in reality a small number.

is there evidence for this or is it anecdotal?