Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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Bruce Wayne said:
It sounds like anti-vaxx sentiment is also very high in France, which could make it a real struggle there.
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Bruce, even if half the French population said Non, that still leaves over 30,000,000 people they could have had a go at. Even now, and it’s something you accuse me of in reverse, is it not possible for you to admit that the EU is not this fantastic body after all......
 
peteblue said:
Bruce, even if half the French population said Non, that still leaves over 30,000,000 people they could have had a go at. Even now, and it’s something you accuse me of in reverse, is it not possible for you to admit that the EU is not this fantastic body after all......
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The EU has rightly or wrongly taken longer to approve vaccines, but it's not to blame for France's slow rollout
 
peteblue said:
Bruce, even if half the French population said Non, that still leaves over 30,000,000 people they could have had a go at. Even now, and it’s something you accuse me of in reverse, is it not possible for you to admit that the EU is not this fantastic body after all......
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This is still an issue of National Government.
 
dead_soft said:
Absolutely barmy of @BlueDraka to suggest Unison is some sort of Momentum cover to infiltrate the Labour Party considering it's one of the more moderate of the unions and often gets accused of being too moderate. Crackers.
And, as you say, to portray Momentum as some crushing chaotic force is a bit silly.
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Don't think I portrayed them as some crushing chaotic force?? I said Liverpool city region unison has some momentum members. I was a union official in both Liverpool and regional. Not in unison. Most members of a Union are pretty moderate. The higher officials dedicate their life to the union and are usually very idealistic. Most higher officials hold very socialists views. I'm not knocking them for that. I'm just saying that some officials will belong to momentum to try and drive their socialist agenda.
My main point is that labour faces a massive divide. We saw that with Corbyn. We will see it with Starmer. It nearly happened with the brexit deal vote. Starmer will have to address the left wing if he is to have any hope of winning an election. The 2 MPs who i said plus Dan Carden are all associated with being union officials and all hold views aligning them with momentum.
And unfortunately that is probably why this terrible government will get re elected
 
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peteblue said:
Bruce, even if half the French population said Non, that still leaves over 30,000,000 people they could have had a go at. Even now, and it’s something you accuse me of in reverse, is it not possible for you to admit that the EU is not this fantastic body after all......
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I'm not sure what it is you want me to say Pete? I've already said that the approval of the vaccine clearly took longer than both the UK and US. The EU hasn't been responsible for the French government's handling of the rollout of the vaccine any more than they were responsible for the good handling of the pandemic by the Germans during the spring.
 
BlueDraka said:
Don't think I portrayed them as some crushing chaotic force?? I said Liverpool city region unison has some momentum members. I was a union official in both Liverpool and regional. Not in unison. Most members of a Union are pretty moderate. The higher officials dedicate their life to the union and are usually very idealistic. Most higher officials hold very socialists views. I'm not knocking for that. I'm just saying that some officials will belong to momentum to try and drive their socialist agenda.
My main point is that labour faces a massive divide. We saw that with Corbyn. We will see it with Starmer. It nearly happened with the brexit deal vote. Starmer will have to address the left wing if he is to have any hope of winning ban election. The 2 MPs who i said plus Dan Carden are all associated with being union officials and all hold views aligning them with momentum.
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Are you saying the higher officials in UNISON are on the far left? Dave Prentis?
And leaving aside that, it's not exactly unusual fro TRADE UNIONS to have some form of socialist 'agenda' - I am struggling to believe you were a member of Militant if you think it's some left-wing infiltration from Momentum that has done that.

Also, if MPs are aligned with Momentum, it would suggest supporting Momentum and the 'far-left' are not a bar to winning an election...
 
BlueDraka said:
Don't think I portrayed them as some crushing chaotic force?? I said Liverpool city region unison has some momentum members. I was a union official in both Liverpool and regional. Not in unison. Most members of a Union are pretty moderate. The higher officials dedicate their life to the union and are usually very idealistic. Most higher officials hold very socialists views. I'm not knocking them for that. I'm just saying that some officials will belong to momentum to try and drive their socialist agenda.
My main point is that labour faces a massive divide. We saw that with Corbyn. We will see it with Starmer. It nearly happened with the brexit deal vote. Starmer will have to address the left wing if he is to have any hope of winning an election. The 2 MPs who i said plus Dan Carden are all associated with being union officials and all hold views aligning them with momentum.
And unfortunately that is probably why this terrible government will get re elected
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Momentum is so bad that the Tories tried to copy but failed and their version was cancelled after a lack of young adults joined.

I'm not saying everyone in Momentum will be a saint but its nothing like the Labour Militant of the 80's. Its a grass roots group who go out and campaign. The reason they will be demonized in the press is because that press are scared of the foot power they have. They have thousands of members prepared to knock on peoples doors which the Tories don't have.
 
dead_soft said:
Are you saying the higher officials in UNISON are on the far left? Dave Prentis?
And leaving aside that, it's not exactly unusual fro TRADE UNIONS to have some form of socialist 'agenda' - I am struggling to believe you were a member of Militant if you think it's some left-wing infiltration from Momentum that has done that.

Also, if MPs are aligned with Momentum, it would suggest supporting Momentum and the 'far-left' are not a bar to winning an election...
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Not talking about national officials. I'm talking about local officials.
And of course unions should have a socialist agenda. But I'm afraid you make yourself unelectable with a truly socialist agenda in the UK. Hated Blair but he played the middle ground and got himself elected 3 times. At least we had a labour government. MPs aligned with momentum with push the socialist agenda. And like I say a socialist agenda very rarely wins a national election. Hope I'm wrong though.
Militant. I joined when I was young and idealistic. But a lot older now and don't hold the same views
 
BlueDraka said:
Quite easy to find out about them.

About - Momentum

peoplesmomentum.com peoplesmomentum.com
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How dare they want a better society , never voting for Labour again.

Momentum is a people-powered, vibrant movement. We aim to transform the Labour Party, our communities and Britain in the interests of the many, not the few.

Our proposition is simple: if more of us come together, we can use our skills and energy to tackle every challenge head on. Using our collective power, our campaigning, networks and tech, we can transform society for the better.

From our view of the Labour Party, to how we change Britain for the better, we’re up front about where we stand.
 
Moomin said:
Momentum is so bad that the Tories tried to copy but failed and their version was cancelled after a lack of young adults joined.

I'm not saying everyone in Momentum will be a saint but its nothing like the Labour Militant of the 80's. Its a grass roots group who go out and campaign. The reason they will be demonized in the press is because that press are scared of the foot power they have. They have thousands of members prepared to knock on peoples doors which the Tories don't have.
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I can agree with all that. The press will and always have demonised the Labour party. It will happen at the next election. But my fear us that this idiot and his chums will be elected again. Hope I'm so wrong!
 
BlueDraka said:
Not talking about national officials. I'm talking about local officials.
And of course unions should have a socialist agenda. But I'm afraid you make yourself unelectable with a truly socialist agenda in the UK. Hated Blair but he played the middle ground and got himself elected 3 times. At least we had a labour government. MPs aligned with momentum with push the socialist agenda. And like I say a socialist agenda very rarely wins a national election. Hope I'm wrong though.
Militant. I joined when I was young and idealistic. But a lot older now and don't hold the same views
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So the local officials of UNISON are on the far left? What do they do that pushes a far left agenda within their moderate union?

So, what should Labour be campaigning on in order to get elected and make the country a better and fairer nation?
 
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