Current Affairs EU In or Out

[dandydan]

If were talking false campaign promises nobody said the end game was a federal Europe when we joined the common market. So by using remainers logic things have evened them self out.
I just solved a problem that will cost millions for politicians to sort out while sat in a boozer wasting a sunny afternoon.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

1960's till we joined the common agricultural policy trade deals only purchase tax of 3-7% on luxury goods depending what you purchased eventually became VAT that immediately went to 8 % more across the board then on to 10 percent up to the current rate of 17.5 %.
The only favour General de Gaulle did for us after we looked after him very well and the French movement in world war 2, and won him his country back was to block us joining the then strong for trade Common Market!
Ted Heath had to pay top whack to get us in it alienating us from our old british commonwealth countries, out went cheap New zealand lamb, out went cheap Austrian butter up went taxes on goods as purchase tax was abolished for VAT.
even I did not realise the EU then had a say in what deals outside the EU we could do? what kind of memebership is that all the countries have to vote the same way where the democracy in that??????
If they have this super power EU army it will be laughable costly imagine how they will make a decision when they have to agree on everything in a situation of importance????
anyway we already have a UN that does that!
Look in my life time I have voted twice to remain in Europe for trade never has there been a vote for a political union with the EU till June 23rd a record high turnout with a mandate to leave I voted to leave 3rd time lucky as I had been brainwashed to vote yes stay in the two other times!
Brexit will happen it will take time yes it will be bumpy , but the EU itself is imploding with the EURO in history Brexit imo will be the best vote the UK Citizens ever made!
Getting an elected house of Lords is another issue but that needs doing as well IMO!

The British economy was on the slide in the 60's though mate, as our trade dwindled amongst the commonwealth and we increasingly started to trade more with our European neighbours, it was this that was the stimulus for us to join the EEC in the first place!

We'd have never agreed to an EU army and used our veto, same as we would do for any of the other federalist ideals should they have ever made it to the table.

We're not part of the Euro for exactly that reason, we chose to not participate and a good decision it was to.

I'm not fan of the overly bureaucratic EU, nor do I agree with the ideals of federalism.

However, losing access to the single market would prove to be an economic disaster over the medium to long term, that would see our island marginalised and could take us a generation to recover from. I think the glib way a potential loss of free trade is being portrayed as in some quarters is completely delusional, it simply has to stay as far as I'm concerned. Ultimately if that means retaining free movement then so be it, as the referendum wasn't about free movement, it was about our membership of the EU.

 

[Joey66]

The British economy was on the slide in the 60's though mate, as our trade dwindled amongst the commonwealth and we increasingly started to trade more with our European neighbours, it was this that was the stimulus for us to join the EEC in the first place!

We'd have never agreed to an EU army and used our veto, same as we would do for any of the other federalist ideals should they have ever made it to the table.

We're not part of the Euro for exactly that reason, we chose to not participate and a good decision it was to.

I'm not fan of the overly bureaucratic EU, nor do I agree with the ideals of federalism.

However, losing access to the single market would prove to be an economic disaster over the medium to long term, that would see our island marginalised and could take us a generation to recover from. I think the glib way a potential loss of free trade is being portrayed as in some quarters is completely delusional, it simply has to stay as far as I'm concerned. Ultimately if that means retaining free movement then so be it, as the referendum wasn't about free movement, it was about our membership of the EU.

On the slide or we had industries do you mean the EU did not stop the dumping of steel their levy in the EU was pathetic 10 percent while the USA put on a 50 percent levy why because they had their independence.
Like it or not in the future the EU will not impose their laws upon us, and watch this space whe we negotiate a deal in the single market that will be a compromise, but not cost 18 billion other countries will want to Brexit the EU!

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

On the slide or we had industries do you mean the EU did not stop the dumping of steel their levy in the EU was pathetic 10 percent while the USA put on a 50 percent levy why because they had their independence.
Like it or not in the future the EU will not impose their laws upon us, and watch this space whe we negotiate a deal in the single market that will be a compromise, but not cost 18 billion other countries will want to Brexit the EU!

You've just highlighted the exact reason why any deal we end up with to retain access to the single market won't be better than what we already have.....otherwise what's the point of membership ffs?

and I meant on the slide...our exports to the commonwealth had tumbled and we needed to develop our trading ties with our neighbours, hence the reason we joined the common market.

 

[joey_macmo]

On the slide or we had industries do you mean the EU did not stop the dumping of steel their levy in the EU was pathetic 10 percent while the USA put on a 50 percent levy why because they had their independence.
Like it or not in the future the EU will not impose their laws upon us, and watch this space whe we negotiate a deal in the single market that will be a compromise, but not cost 18 billion other countries will want to Brexit the EU!

It didnt cost us anything close to 18 Billion pounds either.

Without wanting to get into it again, like the other thread where you talked about the EU referendum being the highest turnout ever its important that misleading statements are corrected.

 

[Joey66]

It didnt cost us anything close to 18 Billion pounds either.

Without wanting to get into it again, like the other thread where you talked about the EU referendum being the highest turnout ever its important that misleading statements are corrected.

Its 18 billion which is subtracted by the EU as it give us rebates telling us how they have to be spent etc etc so all in all the farmers subsidies cost approx 4 million we have already stated we will honour that till 2020 in all we get about 6-8 billion back on what THEY decide - great our money they say how it should be spent!
I have seen schemes in my area used in a so called EU grant ( which is our money} totally wasted cycle paths in stupid areas that cyclist do not use, there are some successful ones I grant you that but there are some stupid money wasting ones!

Do no forget the more successful our country gets the costlier our membership fee goes up!

Imagine if your boss calls you in and states I am giving you a £5000 a year pay rise, but expects more input from you then relates to you how you should spend the pay rise where you really gain Zero , my guess is you would tell him to stick it were the sun don't shine and that's what the voters did on the 23 rd of June 2016!

 

[joey_macmo]

Its 18 billion which the EU give us rebates telling us how they have to be spent etc etc so all in all the farmers subsidies cost approx 4 million we have already stated we will honour that till 2020 in all we get about 6-8 billion back on what THEY decide - great our money they say how it should be spent!
Do no forget the more successful our country gets the costlier our membership fee goes up!

Imagine if your boss calls you in and states I am giving you a £5000 a year pay rise then relates to you how you should spend the pay rise where you really gain Zero , my guess is you would tell him to stick it were the sun don't shine and that's what the voters did on the 23 rd of June 2016!

As i said im not getting into it all again, you said it costs us 18 Billion, well it doesn't and I'm pretty sure you know that.

 

[Joey66]

As i said im not getting into it all again, you said it costs us 18 Billion, well it doesn't and I'm pretty sure you know that.

Read above its 18 billion with rebates back but as explained in a post you wish to ignore its a bureaucratic nightmare that was voted OUT!
Its no good burying your head in the sand yes the 350 million to the NHS was wrong it was an example of wasted funds, even Nigel Farage disputed that figure lies were told on both sides but at the end of the day we are out end of
mediation is now the future for both sides they have as much to lose as us if it is not done properly!!

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Its 18 billion which is subtracted by the EU as it give us rebates telling us how they have to be spent etc etc so all in all the farmers subsidies cost approx 4 million we have already stated we will honour that till 2020 in all we get about 6-8 billion back on what THEY decide - great our money they say how it should be spent!
I have seen schemes in my area used in a so called EU grant ( which is our money} totally wasted cycle paths in stupid areas that cyclist do not use, there are some successful ones I grant you that but there are some stupid money wasting ones!

Do no forget the more successful our country gets the costlier our membership fee goes up!

Imagine if your boss calls you in and states I am giving you a £5000 a year pay rise, but expects more input from you then relates to you how you should spend the pay rise where you really gain Zero , my guess is you would tell him to stick it were the sun don't shine and that's what the voters did on the 23 rd of June 2016!

It was never £18BN. They used that figure to create a false narrative. Thatcher negotiated a discount for the UK and the 'rebate' is calculated and deducted before we pay them a penny.

It was £13BN gross in 2015, which after UK EU spending was £8.5BN net, which equates to 0.4% of the UK's GDP.

There's been some great work done with EU grants btw, most of our Universities R&D for a start off, plus thousands of projects focussing on economic development via the ERDF pot.

 

[joey_macmo]

Read above its 18 billion with rebates back but as explained in a post you wish to ignore its a bureaucratic nightmare that was voted OUT!
Its no good burying your head in the sand yes the 350 million to the NHS was wrong it was an example of wasted funds, even Nigel Farage disputed that figure lies were told on both sides but at the end of the day we are out end of
mediation is now the future for both sides they have as much to lose as us if it is not done properly!!

Again I'm not getting into it, you said it cost us 18 billion, that's incorrect.

 

[Joey66]

It was never £18BN. They used that figure to create a false narrative. Thatcher negotiated a discount for the UK and the 'rebate' is calculated and deducted before we pay them a penny.

It was £13BN gross in 2015, which after UK EU spending was £8.5BN net, which equates to 0.4% of the UK's GDP.

There's been some great work done with EU grants btw, most of our Universities R&D for a start off, plus thousands of projects focussing on economic development via the ERDF pot.

Urm Thatcher's negotiations were given back by Blair in full - look the GDP as you put it rises our membership fee goes up and up tell me how much EU migration on free movement without a job cost us?

 

[Joey66]

Again I'm not getting into it, you said it cost us 18 billion, that's incorrect.

it maybe but I am estimating on cost of low paid EU worker or unemployed worker claiming benefits instantly - NI was set up over a long period to fund residents free NHS Doctors etc!
look we may have to pay for the single market it will not be the payment we choke up now then get dictated to by unelected EU bureaucrats, and thats whats upset them more than anything!

 

[hullefc]

Read above its 18 billion with rebates back but as explained in a post you wish to ignore its a bureaucratic nightmare that was voted OUT!
Its no good burying your head in the sand yes the 350 million to the NHS was wrong it was an example of wasted funds, even Nigel Farage disputed that figure lies were told on both sides but at the end of the day we are out end of
mediation is now the future for both sides they have as much to lose as us if it is not done properly!!

Farage said £10 billion per year. "“We have a £10 billion, £34 million a day featherbed, that is going to be free money that we can spend on the NHS, on schools, on whatever it is."

European Union Finances 2015: statement on the 2015 EU Budget and measures to counter fraud and financial mismanagement

This shows the UK contributions to the EU budget.

It says in 2105 the gross payment was £17.7 billion. Which includes the Gross National Income payment ( depends how rich a country is) £13 billion, plus VAT = £2.3 billion and a thing called TOR £2.4 billion.

TOR - Traditional Own Resources payments - which is another word for custom duties/tariffs imposed on goods imported into the EU- TOR payments at 75 per cent to the EU. The remaining 25 per cent is retained by the UK to cover the costs of administering collection on behalf of the EU. This amounts £2.4 billion to the EU and the UK keeps £800 million. As this is paid by those exporting into the EU/UK it is not an expense on the UK treasury.

That means the figure is £17.7 - £3.2 (TOR payment)= £14.5 billion includes VAT payment.

The UK gets a rebate - "the estimated value of the UK’s rebate in 2015 is €5.6 billion (£4.4 billion)" £14.5 billion - £4.4 billion = £10.1 billion.

"UK public sector receipts in 2015, mainly from the European Agricultural Guarantee (EAGF), European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development (EAFRD) and the Social and Regional Development Funds, are expected to be around £4.4 billion. The majority of these receipts will either be paid to, or used in support of, the private sector but are channelled through government departments or agencies".

£10.1 billion minus this £4.4 = £5.7 billion.

"The EU makes some payments directly to the private sector, for example to carry out research activities. These payments do not appear in the public sector’s accounts. It is estimated that in 2013, these receipts were worth £1.4 billion. These payments are not included in Tables 3.A or 3.C-F, which provide data on public sector receipts only.

So that is £5.7 billion minus £1.4 billion = £4.3 billion.

The UK could decide to reduce the VAT or it could add it to is coffers which would mean that the money saved by not being in the EU is £4.3 billion plus £2.5 billion VAT = £6.8 billion per year".

You are right though the UK will have money to spend that they can determine. But it wouldn't surprise me that any 'savings' will go to the rich and not the working class. I have no faith whatsoever that those 'negotiating' the exit, Johnson, Fox and Davis, and possible trade deals know what they are doing, as their performance/understanding have been abysmal.

 

[Joey66]

Farage said £10 billion per year. "“We have a £10 billion, £34 million a day featherbed, that is going to be free money that we can spend on the NHS, on schools, on whatever it is."

European Union Finances 2015: statement on the 2015 EU Budget and measures to counter fraud and financial mismanagement

This shows the UK contributions to the EU budget.

It says in 2105 the gross payment was £17.7 billion. Which includes the Gross National Income payment ( depends how rich a country is) £13 billion, plus VAT = £2.3 billion and a thing called TOR £2.4 billion.

TOR - Traditional Own Resources payments - which is another word for custom duties/tariffs imposed on goods imported into the EU- TOR payments at 75 per cent to the EU. The remaining 25 per cent is retained by the UK to cover the costs of administering collection on behalf of the EU. This amounts £2.4 billion to the EU and the UK keeps £800 million. As this is paid by those exporting into the EU/UK it is not an expense on the UK treasury.

That means the figure is £17.7 - £3.2 (TOR payment)= £14.5 billion includes VAT payment.

The UK gets a rebate - "the estimated value of the UK’s rebate in 2015 is €5.6 billion (£4.4 billion)" £14.5 billion - £4.4 billion = £10.1 billion.

"UK public sector receipts in 2015, mainly from the European Agricultural Guarantee (EAGF), European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development (EAFRD) and the Social and Regional Development Funds, are expected to be around £4.4 billion. The majority of these receipts will either be paid to, or used in support of, the private sector but are channelled through government departments or agencies".

£10.1 billion minus this £4.4 = £5.7 billion.

"The EU makes some payments directly to the private sector, for example to carry out research activities. These payments do not appear in the public sector’s accounts. It is estimated that in 2013, these receipts were worth £1.4 billion. These payments are not included in Tables 3.A or 3.C-F, which provide data on public sector receipts only.

So that is £5.7 billion minus £1.4 billion = £4.3 billion.

The UK could decide to reduce the VAT or it could add it to is coffers which would mean that the money saved by not being in the EU is £4.3 billion plus £2.5 billion VAT = £6.8 billion per year".

You are right though the UK will have money to spend that they can determine. But it wouldn't surprise me that any 'savings' will go to the rich and not the working class. I have no faith whatsoever that those 'negotiating' the exit, Johnson, Fox and Davis, and possible trade deals know what they are doing, as their performance/understanding have been abysmal.

Reading all that puzzles me when top journalist our remain politicians admit our membership to the EU leaves us in deficit without the immigration pressures on society in certain areas of our counties of the counties that can not cope with services + a big housing shortage!

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Urm Thatcher's negotiations were given back by Blair in full

No they weren't