Current Affairs EU In or Out

[GrandOldTeam]

But I believed then,, and I still do, that many millions of folk didnt have a clue what they were really voting for. I didnt, and no one could tell me, so I voted for what I knew, warts and all.

I think that argument could be made for every election.

I also think many (or even most) politicians didn't have a clue what Brexit would entails - David Cameron was 'caught' in Jan 2018 privately saying Brexit wasn't the disaster they thought it would be.

Utter hogwash. The Daily Mail, Daily Telegraph, Sun, Daily Express (just to name four national newspapers) were completely opposed to the EU and have been for about 20 years. Do you think they constitute 1% of the media?

Ha. Ok mate. Maybe I live in a parallel universe were the media was celebratory after the Brexit referendum result, and all positive and delighted by the result with no sky is falling narrative.

In reality, the narrative was the sky would fall.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

A huge success given the picture painted.

If you told people after the result of the referendum, and the years afterwards there would be no noticeable impact - they'd have took that.

I've personally not noticed a single impact to all this chaos we were told just the uncertainty alone of Brexit would bring.

I was hoping the housing market would plummet due to Brexit like George Osbourne and co all told us would no doubt happen...

That's like saying that because 10 million people haven't died from COVID that it's no big deal, ignoring the very real measures that have been introduced to prevent such an outcome. In the 4 years since the Brexit vote, the Bank of England have created £1.3 trillion. Given that inflation is still crazily low, you can perhaps draw the dots at what might have happened had such a huge amount of money not been printed. It's also widely accepted by economists that any form of quantitative easing bolsters asset prices, as the very point of it is to encourage people to move out of (safe) bonds and into riskier investments, such as shares and property. It might be pertinent to remember that in the immediate aftermath of the vote alone, the BoE created over twice as much new money as they did in the wake of the 2009 financial crisis.

Move along, nothing to see here though.

 

[Aberblue]

I think that argument could be made for every election.

I also think many (or even most) politicians didn't have a clue what Brexit would entails - David Cameron was 'caught' in Jan 2018 privately saying Brexit wasn't the disaster they thought it would be.



Ha. Ok mate. Maybe I live in a parallel universe were the media was celebratory after the Brexit referendum result, and all positive and delighted by the result with no sky is falling narrative.

In reality, the narrative was the sky would fall.

So your definition of "the media" excludes major newspapers? Maybe you do live in a parallel universe. Do the RS get the benefits of every decision in your universe as well as ours?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

That's like saying that because 10 million people haven't died from COVID that it's no big deal, ignoring the very real measures that have been introduced to prevent such an outcome. In the 4 years since the Brexit vote, the Bank of England have created £1.3 trillion. Given that inflation is still crazily low, you can perhaps draw the dots at what might have happened had such a huge amount of money not been printed. It's also widely accepted by economists that any form of quantitative easing bolsters asset prices, as the very point of it is to encourage people to move out of (safe) bonds and into riskier investments, such as shares and property. It might be pertinent to remember that in the immediate aftermath of the vote alone, the BoE created over twice as much new money as they did in the wake of the 2009 financial crisis.

Move along, nothing to see here though.

Wow. All sounds scary that.

I'm sure your day-to-day life has been significantly hindered by the result of the referendum all these years later.

It's also going to get much worse apparently mate so strap yourself in.

 

[roydo]

I think that argument could be made for every election.

Well, maybe, as in most vote the way they always did. But on a single issue referendum?

I mean the unicorn uplands versus project fear argument was pretty much it, but when you questioned the unicorn uplands with proper questions, (RoI/NI border anyone?), you were dismissed as moaning and scared.

Put simply, populism won the day, and that rarely ends well.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

So your definition of "the media" excludes major newspapers? Maybe you do live in a parallel universe. Do the RS get the benefits of every decision in your universe as well as ours?

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[GrandOldTeam]

Well, maybe, as in most vote the way they always did. But on a single issue referendum?

I mean the unicorn uplands versus project fear argument was pretty much it, but when you questioned the unicorn uplands with proper questions, (RoI/NI border anyone?), you were dismissed as moaning and scared.

Put simply, populism won the day, and that rarely ends well.

I think most just blamed the bus mate.

That damn bus with the NHS message.

That was it. Nothing else.

The fools up North fell for the bus. That, and the racists of course.

 

[peteblue]

I ignored all that, as I did when a factory closing, or opening was claimed to be Brexit related to win the internet.

But I believed then,, and I still do, that many millions of folk didnt have a clue what they were really voting for. I didnt, and no one could tell me, so I voted for what I knew, warts and all.

The fantasy land presented to me by Farage et al was bollox then, and its bollox now.

Like most, I dont know how supplies and prices and what ever will do next year, I hope my fears are unfounded, but on balance, it still seems a mental cost to find out.

And 4 years ago, I asked any leaver to explain how the Irish/NI border + Ending Free Movement equals. Other than "Break International Law", I still havnt had an answer. If you fancy a stab at it, go ahead.

If it helps, you are not the only Remainer who didn’t understand what you were voting for. You probably thought you were voting for the status quo, but the Eu is an ongoing project that is evolving in ways you probably wouldn’t vote for. Look at the latest nonsense where they are trying to tie the Covid assistance payments to a countries ‘good behaviour’, so they now have both Poland and Hungary vetoing the funding packages for the whole of the EU. Meanwhile the U.K. has already moved on and businesses are about to get a second grant payment for lockdown and access to loans.

In respect of NI, I mentioned proposals, which would have required a £500million programme and which would have made a huge investment in technological solutions to trade movement, which even the Eu agreed would have provided a solution, but both sides expected a deal anyway so it wouldn’t have been needed. The Internal Market Bill is a negotiating ploy which eliminates the reverse ploy that the EU built into the WA.

Let’s just see where we are when the game is finished. If we have a deal I will be happy, if we don’t have a deal I will still be happy, and the sky will still not fall on our heads....

 

[roydo]

I think most just blamed the bus mate.

That damn bus with the NHS message.

That was it. Nothing else.

The fools up North fell for the bus. That, and the racists of course.

Damn bus indeed.

Dont think folk were foolish. Just that no one told them anything remotely good about being in the EU. Just the bad stuff, and there are bad stuff in the EU.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

If it helps, you are not the only Remainer who didn’t understand what you were voting for. You probably thought you were voting for the status quo, but the Eu is an ongoing project that is evolving in ways you probably wouldn’t vote for. Look at the latest nonsense where they are trying to tie the Covid assistance payments to a countries ‘good behaviour’, so they now have both Poland and Hungary vetoing the funding packages for the whole of the EU. Meanwhile the U.K. has already moved on and businesses are about to get a second grant payment for lockdown and access to loans.

Perhaps contributory to this;

• On a per-capita basis, the UK has built the largest and most diversified vaccine portfolio, according to data from Deutsche Bank, having pre-ordered more than five doses per citizen spread across six leading vaccine candidates. The UK is followed closely by the US, Canada and Japan. In total, dealmaking by the US, UK, EU, Japan and other rich nations has meant wealthy countries representing just 13 per cent of the world’s population have bought more than half of the leading vaccine candidates’ promised doses, according to Oxfam, the charity.

 

[roydo]

Perhaps contributory to this;

• On a per-capita basis, the UK has built the largest and most diversified vaccine portfolio, according to data from Deutsche Bank, having pre-ordered more than five doses per citizen spread across six leading vaccine candidates. The UK is followed closely by the US, Canada and Japan. In total, dealmaking by the US, UK, EU, Japan and other rich nations has meant wealthy countries representing just 13 per cent of the world’s population have bought more than half of the leading vaccine candidates’ promised doses, according to Oxfam, the charity.

View attachment 108156

Hang on, we are good a Covid now?????

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Damn bus indeed.

Dont think folk were foolish. Just that no one told them anything remotely good about being in the EU. Just the bad stuff, and there are bad stuff in the EU.

Agree with that.

I think Remain definitely did overstate the consequence/can't cope outside the EU messaging.

Years of politicians blaming Brussels didn't help their cause either.

 

[Jebus_lives]

It is far less political than in France. Macron has a very vocal and demonstrative group of farmer and fishermen, who think nothing of causing chaos on motorways and ports. The problem for France and Macron is that the French fishermen will not only have reduced areas because of that reduced access, but also that other EU countries will then be wanting to access French fishing grounds. Personally I would have offered a five year, year on year reduction, transition period to the EU as our own fishing capability is renewed as this would soften the blow. But of course if the EU chose not to have any deal then they won’t have any access.

They keep saying that if the U.K. wants access to the EU market then they must have access to our fishing grounds, completely ignoring the fact that in terms of trade the U.K. market is far more valuable to the Eu than the Eu market is to the U.K. where we have an £80Bn deficit.....

Your response to 'why does the UK fetishise fishing so much?' is to argue that we aren't as bad as the French?

My point is - why is fishing, aside from concept of supremacy over something, so important? It seems bizarre to me, given the nature of the UK economy to be beholden to fishing and even more bizarre to make it a stumbling block in relation to a trade deal.

 

[peteblue]

Hang on, we are good a Covid now?????

It’s a shock to find out the U.K. isn’t the basket case that many on here paint it isn’t it......

 

[Jebus_lives]

Agree with that.

I think Remain definitely did overstate the consequence/can't cope outside the EU messaging.

Years of politicians blaming Brussels didn't help their cause either.

Both sides overstated. It's what the media do, they pick out the most extreme examples of things to dictate the narrative.

Which is why Brexit in the eyes of many is either: promises of sunny uplands and a return to Empire or the sky falling in.

The reality is that it is something willingly done to ourselves which makes our lives more difficult with no tangible benefit.