Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
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Bruce Wayne said:
It's sadly not a surprising view Pete as you've done nothing but support the government line for years, even as they descend further down the rabbit hole. Meanwhile, a growing number of the "best and the brightest" decide that a country that is doing its damndest to make it hard for them is not where they want to be. After all, they often have their pick of any country in the world, so why would they choose here? What has this government done to make people feel welcome over the past 10 years?
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I honestly don’t know Bruce. And I honestly don’t know what any government in the EU has ever done either. However, I would doubt that any Eu country would do any more or less than the U.K., and I have doubts that other Eu communities would treat them any better than the U.K. people do. Perhaps it’s because I don’t experience what you do, but having children and their families living in the USA, Saudi and the Philippines, and looking at the increasing racial mix within the U.K. I honestly do not see this problem that you apparently do.....
 
peteblue said:
I honestly don’t know Bruce. And I honestly don’t know what any government in the EU has ever done either. However, I would doubt that any Eu country would do any more or less than the U.K., and I have doubts that other Eu communities would treat them any better than the U.K. people do. Perhaps it’s because I don’t experience what you do, but having children and their families living in the USA, Saudi and the Philippines, and looking at the increasing racial mix within the U.K. I honestly do not see this problem that you apparently do.....
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I can't speak for the Philippines, but the US and Saudi are hardly bastions of inclusivity and liberal values, so I don't think they are who we should be aspiring towards. The fact is that as an EU member we ostensibly gave equality between a Frenchman and an Englishman. Now that isn't the case at all. I know we've discussed this many times previously, and as a devout supporter of open borders, had Brexit opened the same freedoms up to people from outside of the EU I would have no problems with that particular vision of "Global Britain", but it hasn't for many years, and has instead descended ever further into Little Englander'ness. I don't believe that deep down that's an outcome you want any more than I do.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
I can't speak for the Philippines, but the US and Saudi are hardly bastions of inclusivity and liberal values, so I don't think they are who we should be aspiring towards. The fact is that as an EU member we ostensibly gave equality between a Frenchman and an Englishman. Now that isn't the case at all. I know we've discussed this many times previously, and as a devout supporter of open borders, had Brexit opened the same freedoms up to people from outside of the EU I would have no problems with that particular vision of "Global Britain", but it hasn't for many years, and has instead descended ever further into Little Englander'ness. I don't believe that deep down that's an outcome you want any more than I do.
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I didn’t list them as such either, they highlight that actually we are not that bad. I don’t want a little Englander approach. I believe in working with the World and have been fortunate to actually do so. I want people from anywhere in the world to be able to contribute and become a part of the U.K., not just those from the EU....
 
peteblue said:
I didn’t list them as such either, they highlight that actually we are not that bad. I don’t want a little Englander approach. I believe in working with the World and have been fortunate to actually do so. I want people from anywhere in the world to be able to contribute and become a part of the U.K., not just those from the EU....
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Do you really believe that is happening?
 
peteblue said:
Not at the moment, but our new immigration laws do not come into effect until the end of transition. The new rules appear to give those that can contribute a way in...

www.gov.uk

Visas and immigration - GOV.UK

Apply to visit, work, study, settle or seek asylum in the UK
www.gov.uk www.gov.uk
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Christ Pete, for a guy that brands themselves as a critical thinker, you don't half swallow everything the Tories put out. They've basically made no changes to the rules for the rest of the world, and forced EU citizens to abide by the same regulations. My wife wouldn't be allowed in. The Home Secretary's parents wouldn't be allowed in. Thousands who are making a contribution to this society wouldn't be allowed in under arbitrary rules. For a party that prides itself not only on being global but on being small state, they walk a very different walk.
 
JimmyJeffers said:
What’s defined as contribution?
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Changing an adult nappy on an ICU ward probably doesnt count I would guess.

Nor being one of the auxiliary cleaners who scoured another ward for a phone that was lost during a ward move. (found it!)

Nor the catering team who instead of pumping more and more (important but unpleasant) drugs into a frail body, made a special trip with a cup of tea when they heard a patient was awake at night.

Nor the army of cleaners who 24/7 swab, mop, and sanitise a ward, constantly, for 10 or 12 hours. Then somehow find the time to deep clean a room, cos, well, someone isnt there anymore.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Christ Pete, for a guy that brands themselves as a critical thinker, you don't half swallow everything the Tories put out. They've basically made no changes to the rules for the rest of the world, and forced EU citizens to abide by the same regulations. My wife wouldn't be allowed in. The Home Secretary's parents wouldn't be allowed in. Thousands who are making a contribution to this society wouldn't be allowed in under arbitrary rules. For a party that prides itself not only on being global but on being small state, they walk a very different walk.
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I just assume he means critical drinker.
 
roydo said:
Changing an adult nappy on an ICU ward probably doesnt count I would guess.

Nor being one of the auxiliary cleaners who scoured another ward for a phone that was lost during a ward move. (found it!)

Nor the catering team who instead of pumping more and more (important but unpleasant) drugs into a frail body, made a special trip with a cup of tea when they heard a patient was awake at night.

Nor the army of cleaners who 24/7 swab, mop, and sanitise a ward, constantly, for 10 or 12 hours. Then somehow find the time to deep clean a room, cos, well, someone isnt there anymore.
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Lets be honest, for all the snobbery we may have about jobs, anyone that has one is contributing in some way.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Lets be honest, for all the snobbery we may have about jobs, anyone that has one is contributing in some way.
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Yep, of course. Unless it doesnt affect you, cos then you dont realise it, and retreat to your prejudice and slogans.

In my modest high street, we have Hungarians running the vape shop, Indian, Italian, Thai, and Chinese restaurants. We have an Asian run nail bar, and when I was delivering, loads of Europeans living and working in town, and in Bristol.

But like you allude to, who will measure their "contribution"?
 
Bruce Wayne said:
It's sadly not a surprising view Pete as you've done nothing but support the government line for years, even as they descend further down the rabbit hole. Meanwhile, a growing number of the "best and the brightest" decide that a country that is doing its damndest to make it hard for them is not where they want to be. After all, they often have their pick of any country in the world, so why would they choose here? What has this government done to make people feel welcome over the past 10 years?
Click to expand...
I think this is a very good point.
The UK will now be competing directly with the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, Singapore, and countless other countries for talent.
I've only been to the UK a couple of times since the brexit vote (just to London), but I noticed a surprising up tick in xenophobia.
The amount of highly talented labour the UK will be sacrificing in order to appease a perception that some people are emigrating there just to live off benefits, is crazy and will only add to the longevity of the post brexit recession.
 
Ruairi77 said:
I think this is a very good point.
The UK will now be competing directly with the US, Canada, Australia, NZ, Singapore, and countless other countries for talent.
I've only been to the UK a couple of times since the brexit vote (just to London), but I noticed a surprising up tick in xenophobia.
The amount of highly talented labour the UK will be sacrificing in order to appease a perception that some people are emigrating there just to live off benefits, is crazy and will only add to the longevity of the post brexit recession.
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We have always competed with the world for talent. And I doubt you saw an uptick of xenophobia in London.

But it is correct that its the perception folk will have. As you have confirmed.

"Hostile" is not the most welcoming of messages is it?
 
roydo said:
We have always competed with the world for talent. And I doubt you saw an uptick of xenophobia in London.

But it is correct that its the perception folk will have. As you have confirmed.

"Hostile" is not the most welcoming of messages is it?
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When it came to talent from within the EU, it wasn't a competition as there was no visa or paperwork needed. Also the idea of eventual EU residency was a big draw for people from outside the EU choosing to work in the UK, that's now gone. So, yes, you have always competed but that competition just got needlessly harder.

And I definitely saw an uptick in xenophobia in London.
I have a lot of family and friends from Ireland living there. The younger ones had never experienced anti Irish sentiment till the leave campaign and brexit vote.
The older ones haven't felt this level of anti Irish sentiment since the '80s. On the few trips I've made since Brexit there have been snide comments about my accent that I've never noticed before. Good friends in east London had to call the police because one neighbor gave them so much crap. They even had paint thrown at their house. And this is for a white, English speaking population. I can't imagine the crap people of color or people speaking a different language have to put up with. I lost a very good English friend from Watford who went full Farage. (apparently I was alright because I was Irish, his problem was with the eastern Europeans). I have family in Wolverhampton and Nottingham who are both considering moving their English kids to Ireland because the mood where they live has changed so much for the worse.
Yea, London is a huge multicultural diverse city but it definitely has experienced an increase in xenophobia in my opinion.
 
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