Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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There are probably a number of cognitive biases at play though that lean in favour of leaning. Firstly, and I count myself among their number, very few of us really understand the EU and how it truly impacts our life, so we resort to simplified heuristics that allow us to make emotional, snap judgements. Leave did this by suggesting that the EU were always deciding things on our behalf, and there was absolutely nothing we can do about it. It's twaddle, of course, but we see Pete roll it out even now, so it's been hugely effective.

Secondly, this version of events was largely believable because the media, and especially the tabloid media, have spent years blaming Brussels for all manner of things that have thus been 'imposed' upon Britain. This is why if you ask many people about the EU, bendy bananas are still cited with great regularity.

Thirdly, loss aversion was a major factor in the immigration argument. As I've mentioned before, there is a strong belief among social conservatives that immigrants and ethnic minorities (probably women too tbh) have taken status and power that was previously theirs, and that remaining in the EU would see this influence diminish even further. Couple this with the endowment effect that you see when people get all misty eyed about supposedly traditional British things, such as Rule Britannia, that the 'liberal elite' are trying to take away from them.

Chuck all those together and it really wasn't an economic decision at all, but rather a social decision that was centered around power, influence, and respect.
Great points. Having lived and worked in a few european countries I can say with confidence that being born into privilege and power just arent things on the continent to anywhere near the scale that they are in UK. The likes of rees Morgue were always desperate to ring fence them and theirs rights to rule over us.
 
To be fair the remain campaign went with what had worked previously for them with the Scottish referendum, where they used a 'fear factor' to win and thought the tactic would carry over and would work again with the brexit vote.

They did have a significant lead in the opinion polls when they called the referendum, and there is a theory* that undecided voters normally stick with the mean (what they know) rather than vote for the unknown, so taking those two things into account, plus their experience of the Scottish Referendum they were confident of a win.

I think you are correct in what you said though.


*the theory has a 'name' - will try to find out/remember what the actual correct terminology is
The Scottish referendum vote closed massively in the finishing stages. Labours vote collapsed and has never recovered since all 3 leaders went up in unison.

I very much hope that Scotland remains part of Britain but I reckon another independence vote in the next 5/10 years would have a different outcome and I can’t really blame them.

You’re right though. A lot of similarities there I think
 
No it isn't. This is completely outrageous.

You seem to have a grasp on these legal points and stuff. So other than being outrageous, (agree), is there a body than can stop it? Other than the Lords, and even my knowledge knows they cant really.
 
Chuck all those together and it really wasn't an economic decision at all, but rather a social decision that was centered around power, influence, and respect.

As you mentioned this, do you (or others) as a remain voter subscribe to the philosophy of G. Verhofstadt and M. Schulz for a Federal European state or do you prefer an EU of a confederation of democratic sovereign states ?


Link for those who want further reading on this:

https://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893/20884/1/Glencross_Sovereignty_Games Chapter.pdf
 
As you mentioned this, do you (or others) as a remain voter subscribe to the philosophy of G. Verhofstadt and M. Schulz for a Federal European state or do you prefer an EU of a confederation of democratic sovereign states ?


Link for those who want further reading on this:

https://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893/20884/1/Glencross_Sovereignty_Games Chapter.pdf

Happy to admit I havnt heard of it. Or them.

Neither do I believe you did 4 years ago. Neither do I believe you read every page of your link.

But to answer, I would like the second one. Which is what we left.
 
You seem to have a grasp on these legal points and stuff. So other than being outrageous, (agree), is there a body than can stop it? Other than the Lords, and even my knowledge knows they cant really.

There will be - like with prorogation - and we'll instantly enter a mitigation mechanism with the EU too - ironically under the ECJ jurisdiction. But it's 'kin mental. Ministers can be presented options by their departments - even extreme options - and pick it against advice, but they are always legal options, even to the extent the advice is legally cleared on the way up.

This time round it wasnt even a legal option and they've still picked it. It's insane.
 
But to answer, I would like the second one. Which is what we left.

Its not an elephant trap, just curious (thanks for the answer btw)

and I don't think there was much need for the other bit of your post, the link was to show the difference of them that's all
 
As you mentioned this, do you (or others) as a remain voter subscribe to the philosophy of G. Verhofstadt and M. Schulz for a Federal European state or do you prefer an EU of a confederation of democratic sovereign states ?


Link for those who want further reading on this:

https://dspace.stir.ac.uk/bitstream/1893/20884/1/Glencross_Sovereignty_Games Chapter.pdf

I don't have much of a preference either way tbh, although I do think democracy is hugely flawed and over-rated, and having a bit less democracy is almost certain to yield better quality decisions and governance.
 
Its not an elephant trap, just curious (thanks for the answer btw)

and I don't think there was much need for the other bit of your post, the link was to show the difference of them that's all

Why not? The EU was never a fully federal organisation, though I will admit that some would like that as an outcome one day; the Euro paves the way for that, and for those members, imo, its a matter of time.
 
Yeah I’ve always thought this. Think though that the subject had become so toxic that they felt taking that route would cause a total implosion. Instead they helped foster the growing resentment by not taking a hardline opposition. Their message was muddled at best

The official Remain campaign was woeful, and it was largely staffed by woeful characters who then went on to blame Corbyn for their failure.
 
i was just about to add the caveat that I hadn’t looked at voting lines based around non-white British demographics. Which is another thing entirely.

this has some info on the demographics, not sure how they got their figures though

voters.webp
 
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