Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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summerisle said:
I wasn't really aware that there was a Prime Minister of Flanders. Anyhow,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...e-branch-on-brexit-calls-for-north-sea-union/


Belgium offers olive branch on Brexit, calls for North Sea Union
northsea-medium_trans++0Sl6i09EtnLxMj6W_nrH8eQZNlK4pWdoPxByclcAh1U.PNG

Mr Bourgeois said Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, France, Sweden, and Norway would be the obvious members of a North Sea Union Credit: Alamy

23 August 2016 • 5:39pm

The prime minister of Flanders has proposed a radical North Sea Union linking Britain to a cluster of regional states to cushion the Brexit shock, a sign that European leaders are starting to look for creative ways to heal the referendum rift.

geert-medium_trans++adu-bubCwwNTr_YiFtRU6_-Bx85bdMxAd7S2_gbyXNM.PNG

Flemish minister Geert Bourgeois meets Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon at the end of 2015 Credit: Rex

“I can’t imagine a situation where we have more barriers on trade in both directions. You are our fourth biggest export market. It is in our mutual interest to find a solution, and the majority of the EU now agrees that anything other than a soft Brexit would have a huge cost,” he said.

Mr Bourgeois said the idea of North Sea Union was first proposed by the German ‘Land’ of Bremen six years ago but has suddenly become topical again with the Brexit vote. Denmark, Germany, the Netherlands, France, Sweden, and Norway would be the obvious members.

Geert Bourgeois
The bloc would promote an integrated sphere for offshore energy and marine research, and as well as better grid network with interconnectors to drive down costs and boost back-up power. It would have a defence and security component.


“I am not proposing a new ‘EU’. My idea is a light structure on an intergovernmental basis, like the Mediterranean Union. There are so many areas in which we can work together on the enormous potential of ‘blue industry’ in the oceans, whether it is pharmaceutical sector, health, or food production,” he said.

The overture is a signal that EU politics is already moving beyond the ‘grief and anger’ stage of the Brexit upset, a recognition that it is possible to co-operate intimately with the UK outside the formal structures of the EU. The Belgians are masters of this kind of statecraft.

Flanders is the dominant bloc in Belgium’s complex devolved structure, a rich hi-tech region generating almost two thirds of the country’s GDP. It is led by the New Flemish Alliance (NVA), a conservative free-market party with a mild eurosceptic streak of its own.

charles_michel-medium_trans++1AT3Q7Sc9uaffdHBes0nLp94c1H-LHi-Vnlte6K3ZjU.PNG

Charles Michel, Belgium's prime minister, lashed out at Britain after the Brexit vote Credit: AFP
The friendly tone of Mr Bourgeois is in sharp contrast to the hard-line rhetoric of Belgium’s national prime minister, Charles Michel, who lashed out at Britain after the Brexit vote, summoning all the forces of Apocalypse to punish the country for its sin. “It is the first time in my life that I’ve seen a democracy in a situation like this,” he said.

Mr Michel has reportedly calmed down, but his hands are tied in any case by the realities of Belgian politics in any case. “He is an arch-federalist and wants top take a tough line with Britain but the NVA is the biggest party in Belgium and it has a lot of influence,” said Raoul Ruparel from Open Europe.

Geert Bourgeois


Click to expand...

It's what some of us have been saying all along, the EU needs us and each country will have a different reason for wanting a deal done, be it financial, political or militarily. We are just too big, in all aspects, to be ignored......
 
Generally, poorer areas will have fewer people with degrees and were more likely to vote leave, indicated in those set of stats. But that's hardly surprising is it? It has nothing to do with degrees, or intelligence. Number of degrees is, for me, a way of measuring how privileged an area of the country is.

I am generalising massively when I say this, because otherwise it's hard to analyse how groups of people voted, but it's not shocking or surprising that posh areas with high levels of university enrolment voted remain. Why would they want to rock the boat?
 
peteblue said:
It's what some of us have been saying all along, the EU needs us and each country will have a different reason for wanting a deal done, be it financial, political or militarily. We are just too big, in all aspects, to be ignored......
Click to expand...
Yea, it's like wou want to leave the house only to stand in the garden yelling.
 
bring back the catt said:
I have a degree and majored in accountancy and engineering before moving into one of the many branches of physics. I am an arl ars and HAD to move to Larndahn to even get a job worthy of mention.
I didn't want to, but there it goes. Believe me, the riches of opportunity in the SE region are breath-taking. One can leave a post on a Friday, and still be fixed up with another position by Monday. And personally, i wouldn't give half of them elbow room.
The dissension in all other areas of the country is not brought about by jealousy, or idleness, or lack of education or application, but out of lack of opportunity. It is because many are intelligent and worthy, that they feel so much injustice.
That, plus the incentives companies receive to locate in the SE area.
It could be argued that the many intelligent persons living away from the SE become aggrieved due to them being seen as scroungers and misfits, when in fact most would leave their undeserving southern cousins behind.
Give them the opportunity that successive governments have denied them, and yes, there may have been a different outcome to the vote.
But that is irrelevant, as denied they have been for far too many years.
Britain is the strength of Europe AND will not only continue, but will prosper.
I moved to the SE for gain. I voted for Brexit to ultimately gain. I returned to the NW for the same reason.
I was just so disappointed that, like myself, many others have had to seek employment of note in the SE. All this has done is to fuel the notion that the SE is the only area of the country where wealth can be created. In other words, it has been deliberately manufactured to look that way.
That is the real crime.
Click to expand...

Superb analysis. Bravo! ;)
 
Interesting piece about the US election, but particularly on social media and it's influence - http://www.wired.com/2016/08/alt-rights-dark-army-racist-trolls-just-great-day/ (the quote is from an author on online racism btw)

And social media has been an important vehicle for that rebranding, she says, because it’s a place where, for better or worse, all ideas can have equal weight, regardless of where they originate. “It creates an equivalence of ideas, the undermining of expertise,” Daniels says. “That’s part of what has given them more power. No one’s an expert or everyone’s an expert. White supremacists saw that and got that early on and use that to their advantage.”

In other news, the increasingly nasty Hungarian government is emboldened to hold it's own referendum to stoke the racist them/us undertones in the country.

https://theconversation.com/the-cynical-thinking-behind-hungarys-bizarre-referendum-64403



magicjuan said:
Satire dontcha just love it?
Click to expand...

This is kind of what I've been saying for a while. Your personal intentions may have been entirely honourable, entirely well thought out and noble, but there are a whole bunch of utterly nasty people using Brexit as a gust of wind in their sails, and it isn't like this wasn't forecast, but it was dismissed as part of the infantile project fear moniker.
 
Bruce Wayne said:
Interesting piece about the US election, but particularly on social media and it's influence - http://www.wired.com/2016/08/alt-rights-dark-army-racist-trolls-just-great-day/ (the quote is from an author on online racism btw)

And social media has been an important vehicle for that rebranding, she says, because it’s a place where, for better or worse, all ideas can have equal weight, regardless of where they originate. “It creates an equivalence of ideas, the undermining of expertise,” Daniels says. “That’s part of what has given them more power. No one’s an expert or everyone’s an expert. White supremacists saw that and got that early on and use that to their advantage.”

In other news, the increasingly nasty Hungarian government is emboldened to hold it's own referendum to stoke the racist them/us undertones in the country.

https://theconversation.com/the-cynical-thinking-behind-hungarys-bizarre-referendum-64403





This is kind of what I've been saying for a while. Your personal intentions may have been entirely honourable, entirely well thought out and noble, but there are a whole bunch of utterly nasty people using Brexit as a gust of wind in their sails, and it isn't like this wasn't forecast, but it was dismissed as part of the infantile project fear moniker.
Click to expand...


That could be applied to any administration. It seems to have been consigned to history just how bad the policies were under Cameron. Brexit is a catchall distraction that many are taking advantage of, including Trump ffs. I've mentioned earlier that regardless of the result those who make money would continue to do so and they're pullingvthe strings as ever.
 
magicjuan said:
That could be applied to any administration. It seems to have been consigned to history just how bad the policies were under Cameron. Brexit is a catchall distraction that many are taking advantage of, including Trump ffs. I've mentioned earlier that regardless of the result those who make money would continue to do so and they're pullingvthe strings as ever.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree. There is a groundswell of populism around the world that has anti-globalisation as it's core mantra, whether it's economic protectionism or thinly (or not so thinly) veiled racism. Whether that's your opinion or not, Brexit has certainly given a boost to these groups. It can't be denied as pretty much every leader of such groups has come out saying how great Brexit was.

Now you might agree with them and think globalisation is a bad thing, but if you think openness and tolerance are positive attributes for society to have then it must surely be a worrying time?
 
I hope you're not saying that Globalisation is 'tolerant' and 'open' Bruce.

Bruce Wayne said:
I'm not sure I agree. There is a groundswell of populism around the world that has anti-globalisation as it's core mantra, whether it's economic protectionism or thinly (or not so thinly) veiled racism. Whether that's your opinion or not, Brexit has certainly given a boost to these groups. It can't be denied as pretty much every leader of such groups has come out saying how great Brexit was.

Now you might agree with them and think globalisation is a bad thing, but if you think openness and tolerance are positive attributes for society to have then it must surely be a worrying time?
Click to expand...
 
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