Current Affairs EU In or Out

[JimmyJeffers]

It's quite hard to disagree with this. I've always had sympathy for people who want hyper-local governance (it's not for me but there can be a political and non-bigoted argument behind it) but not when someone wants to govern 4 distinct nations with one parliament yet think the EU doesn't make sense

The unelected bureaucrats argument has never made much sense to me either and is riddled with hypocrisy.

 

[peteblue]

And this was different to voting for the EU Parliament who would then choose the members of the European Commission etc, how?

If every single U.K. voter voted for one party, say Labour, at a GE, and then every single U.K. voter voted for a Labour MEP with the party manifesto of getting rid of Von Der Leyen. So armed with an absolute mandate voted for by every single voter in the U.K. we still couldn’t get rid of her......that’s how it’s different.....

 

[roydo]

The unelected bureaucrats argument has never made much sense to me either and is riddled with hypocrisy.

I am still waiting for a response as to how the ROI/NI border issue can be squared. "Technology" apparently, and that was probaby 3 years ago. At least.

When you find any argument that stacks up, let me know. Ta.

 

[roydo]

If every single U.K. voter voted for one party, say Labour, at a GE, and then every single U.K. voter voted for a Labour MEP with the party manifesto of getting rid of Von Der Leyen. So armed with an absolute mandate voted for by every single voter in the U.K. we still couldn’t get rid of her......that’s how it’s different.....

Nonsense.

Your argument fails at the first attempt, cos the analogy is useless. Now, if you said that if every single person in one constituency voted Labour, but couldnt get rid of Johnson, it would work.

 

[spectateur]

It was always my understanding that one of the main criticisms of the Tories from a wonkish point of view is that they exercise an extremely centralised form of government, with Whitehall controlling and dictating far more than is sensible. Indeed, that came to the fore during COVID, with the German-style distributed system doing much better than the British doing everything at PHE approach.

Germany is a federal republic, each state has a lot of autonomy.

 

[JammyP]

The main difference is, quite simply, that they are foreigners. People can try twisting it any way they like, but that’s what it always comes down to

Foreigners who did not mind us having a finger in their respective pies as part of collective decision-making. That seems a pretty sound idea to me too.

 

[dead_soft]

If every single U.K. voter voted for one party, say Labour, at a GE, and then every single U.K. voter voted for a Labour MEP with the party manifesto of getting rid of Von Der Leyen. So armed with an absolute mandate voted for by every single voter in the U.K. we still couldn’t get rid of her......that’s how it’s different.....

But if everyone in the EU voted for a PES member then they would get rid. It seems what your actual issue is, is that you don’t want to see non-Brits make decisions

 

[dead_soft]

View attachment 99247

Just look at the list. Foot and Kinnock, idiots, John Smith would have been a great PM but tragically died, Blair was a Tory, Brown was a deadly fool, Miliband was a joke, Corbyn (see Foot) and now they have an empty vessel who is more Tory than Boris....Pick the right leader and develop policies that don’t bankrupt the nation nor return it to the union dominated years.....

Still don’t quite know what you mean by ‘proper’ Labour leader. Big fan of anyone who can seriously just dismiss Brown as ‘fool’

 

[Methuselah]

And Blair achieved much domestically too, but is still defined by and large by Iraq. You've just glossed over the million or so that died as a result of partition, and the bungled departure from Israel that has caused two generations worth of conflict in the region. Not judging either way, I just find it interesting.

At the time Iraq was on the go there were no undue domestic pressures for Blair to worry about. Certainly not in comparison to what Attlee faced.
Massive housing shortage as a result of the blitz.
Massive loss of business properties due to same.
Massive demob of Forces personnel with no jobs to go to.
The major problem for 90% of the population was 'the next meal'. I can remember being sent shopping by my mother. Queue was 20 yards outside the shop. Even if you had the money and the coupons you just hoped that they hadn't sold out before it was your turn. Every shopping trip took one or two hours because of queue's. Faced with that lot, on a daily basis, I don't think you can blame Attlee for foreign policy failures.
Bruce, I just don't think you have any idea how bad things were. I don't know if you think the current pandemic is bad? Well, it pales into insignificance compared with the years after the war.

On a brighter note, a true story about rationing. In the early 1950's I remember sweets coming off ration. This would be the first time since rationing started about 10 years earlier. I had some pocket money so raced up to the sweet shop for the thrill of buying some sweets without coupons. When I got to the shop the queue was, as usual, about 20 yards long outside the shop. When I finally reached the counter, I found that the shopkeeper had introduced his own 'rationing' system to ensure everyone got something. The problem was, his rationing was less than the official rationing!

 

[peteblue]

But if everyone in the EU voted for a PES member then they would get rid. It seems what your actual issue is, is that you don’t want to see non-Brits make decisions

I wish for British people to make our own decisions on our life and future....

 

[orly]

I wish for British people to make our own decisions on our life and future....

*apart from if you're British and in Northern Ireland

 

[tsubaki]

View attachment 99247

Just look at the list. Foot and Kinnock, idiots, John Smith would have been a great PM but tragically died, Blair was a Tory, Brown was a deadly fool, Miliband was a joke, Corbyn (see Foot) and now they have an empty vessel who is more Tory than Boris....Pick the right leader and develop policies that don’t bankrupt the nation nor return it to the union dominated years.....

Perhaps you should look at what the people on the list actually did rather than the list; that way you might not make such a complete berk of yourself with posts of this kind.

 

[JimmyJeffers]

Perhaps you should look at what the people on the list actually did rather than the list; that way you might not make such a complete berk of yourself with posts of this kind.

Especially having voted for Major, Howard, Cameron, May and Johnson. The last 3 are likely to be remembered as 3 of the worst PMs in a generation.

 

[dead_soft]

I wish for British people to make our own decisions on our life and future....

Why not make it hyper local? Why not say that Liverpudlians should make our own decision? As is regularly shown, they didn’t vote for this current government

 

[Prevenger17]

View attachment 99247

Pick the right leader and develop policies that don’t bankrupt the nation nor return it to the union dominated years.....