Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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How many years have business and the ports had to prepare for this ? We voted 4 years ago....4 ffs....they will be prepared....

do you want me to give you another lesson on the issues revolving Agri-food products entering at ports of entry, including the current legislative regime and issues this WILL cause. This would cover both Products of Animal Origin and Non-Animal Origin and the potential impacts of trade routes coming from Ireland due to the lack of facilities and these points of entry

I mean, I’m happy to do so
 
do you want me to give you another lesson on the issues revolving Agri-food products entering at ports of entry, including the current legislative regime and issues this WILL cause. This would cover both Products of Animal Origin and Non-Animal Origin and the potential impacts of trade routes coming from Ireland due to the lack of facilities and these points of entry

I mean, I’m happy to do so

Please do, anything that adds value.....
 
Please do, anything that adds value.....

Ok, I'll start with the basics. Has mentioned previously agri-food products are mainly spit into 2 categories; POAO (Animal Origin) and FNAO (Non-Animal Origin) and these can include anything (e.g. POAO - meat, hunting trophies, beeswax; FNAO - berries, nuts, plastic Tupperware, water etc.). These checks apply to products entering the EU from a Third Country (this bit is important)

All food business operators must meet the requirements of Regulation (EC) 178/2002 when importing food products from Third Countries with Article 11 & 12 covering Imports and Exports, as well as Article 18 on the Traceability with those requirements set out in Regulation (EU) 921/2011. Official Controls on such products being imported into the EU is covered by Regulation (EU) 2017/625, this establishes an harmonised approach and creation of some other procedures and standards (including the introduction of IMSOC. Import Controls are contained within Articles 43-76 if you want to read up on them.

When importing such goods as POAO a Health Certificate need to be signed by an Official Delegate from the Country of Origin, stating that the goods meet the conditions of Regulation (EC) 852/2004, the Health Certificate needs to be a certain format as per Regulation (EU) 2019/628 and not all countries are authorised to import into the EU, they must meet the requirements of Regulation (EC) 852/2004 & 853/2004, and be audited on a regular basis to ensure standards are maintained, a list of authorised 3rd Countries can be found in Regulation (EU) 2019/626.

When these goods are imported they must enter the UK through a Border Control Post, such posts are manned by Port Health Authorities under the supervision of Official Veterinarian; however, the must be built by the Port Operator. BCP's must meet the requirements of Regulation (EU) 2019/1014, again to regular audits.

Foods Not of Animal origin are maintained with Regulation (EU) 2019/1783 Appendix 1 & 2; this list is updated on a 6 month basis and is country and product specific (eg. figs from Turkey maybe subject to enhance controls but figs from another country are fine). For certain FNAO products a Health Certificate and results of Sampling and Analysis need to be provided, for others they just need a declaration (referred to as a CHED-D, which is also required for other FNAO products, POAO products are notified via a CVED (soon to be CHED-P and CHED-A for Live Animals).

All products entering from 3rd country require Official Controls as per Regulation (EU) 2017/625; these checks include 100% documentary and percentage based (from those regulations) Identity and Physical/Sampling. For products which pose instant danger to human health (such as the beef issue with brazil a couple of years back, then they are subject 100% physical/sampling checks.

I haven't discussed the IUU Fishing regulations, and I'm not going to.

So that's a very brief (hopefully easily digested) overview of what happens for agri-food products. There's a lot behind the scenes when you tuck into that Tuna butty.

Now on January 1st 2020 we, the UK, will be treated as a Third Country so all those checks will be imposed on British agri-food products. The absolute kicker is that so will the EU. So at present somewhere like Liverpool deals with 2000-3000 consignments year at present, come January that will jump to around 42,000 from the all the European traffic that enters our Port (plus that doesn't count the potential FNAO products which would not on any list). All of those goods will be subject to all those pieces of legislation.

The BCP cannot handle that traffic, its not big enough. The same for Hull, Southampton, Dover and a host of other ports around the country. Even Felixstowe and Harwich will struggle to handle additional cargo from the EU

But we haven't even mentioned the Irish routes yet, they arrive in totally different parts of the Port (one in Birkenhead even), there's no infrastructure there and the goods cannot be transferred to the current BCP for 3 reasons;
Reason 1 - the BCP will not be able to handle the increase in containerised traffic never mind additional Irish traffic​
Reason 2 - Irish traffic is not containerised, it will not fit on the BCP​
Reason 3 - the best till last, all ferry terminals are outside of the custom controlled area. You cannot enter a customs controlled area willy-nilly. Its like walking through Customs at the airport and trying to leave and come back in​
So now we have all these goods which are subject to checks, that can't be checked due to a backlog. Fresh meat from Ireland requiring checks with nowhere to go and business requiring their goods. And all this has been fed back up t the ministers, and has done since Brexit preparations began 3 years ago

And FYI, if you're wondering why I'm quoting EU legislation it's because we will still be following it with the obvious amendment as per the Withdrawal Bill

So Pete, that's why backlogs will happen. All because of an incompetent government
 
Ok, I'll start with the basics. Has mentioned previously agri-food products are mainly spit into 2 categories; POAO (Animal Origin) and FNAO (Non-Animal Origin) and these can include anything (e.g. POAO - meat, hunting trophies, beeswax; FNAO - berries, nuts, plastic Tupperware, water etc.). These checks apply to products entering the EU from a Third Country (this bit is important)

All food business operators must meet the requirements of Regulation (EC) 178/2002 when importing food products from Third Countries with Article 11 & 12 covering Imports and Exports, as well as Article 18 on the Traceability with those requirements set out in Regulation (EU) 921/2011. Official Controls on such products being imported into the EU is covered by Regulation (EU) 2017/625, this establishes an harmonised approach and creation of some other procedures and standards (including the introduction of IMSOC. Import Controls are contained within Articles 43-76 if you want to read up on them.

When importing such goods as POAO a Health Certificate need to be signed by an Official Delegate from the Country of Origin, stating that the goods meet the conditions of Regulation (EC) 852/2004, the Health Certificate needs to be a certain format as per Regulation (EU) 2019/628 and not all countries are authorised to import into the EU, they must meet the requirements of Regulation (EC) 852/2004 & 853/2004, and be audited on a regular basis to ensure standards are maintained, a list of authorised 3rd Countries can be found in Regulation (EU) 2019/626.

When these goods are imported they must enter the UK through a Border Control Post, such posts are manned by Port Health Authorities under the supervision of Official Veterinarian; however, the must be built by the Port Operator. BCP's must meet the requirements of Regulation (EU) 2019/1014, again to regular audits.

Foods Not of Animal origin are maintained with Regulation (EU) 2019/1783 Appendix 1 & 2; this list is updated on a 6 month basis and is country and product specific (eg. figs from Turkey maybe subject to enhance controls but figs from another country are fine). For certain FNAO products a Health Certificate and results of Sampling and Analysis need to be provided, for others they just need a declaration (referred to as a CHED-D, which is also required for other FNAO products, POAO products are notified via a CVED (soon to be CHED-P and CHED-A for Live Animals).

All products entering from 3rd country require Official Controls as per Regulation (EU) 2017/625; these checks include 100% documentary and percentage based (from those regulations) Identity and Physical/Sampling. For products which pose instant danger to human health (such as the beef issue with brazil a couple of years back, then they are subject 100% physical/sampling checks.

I haven't discussed the IUU Fishing regulations, and I'm not going to.

So that's a very brief (hopefully easily digested) overview of what happens for agri-food products. There's a lot behind the scenes when you tuck into that Tuna butty.

Now on January 1st 2020 we, the UK, will be treated as a Third Country so all those checks will be imposed on British agri-food products. The absolute kicker is that so will the EU. So at present somewhere like Liverpool deals with 2000-3000 consignments year at present, come January that will jump to around 42,000 from the all the European traffic that enters our Port (plus that doesn't count the potential FNAO products which would not on any list). All of those goods will be subject to all those pieces of legislation.

The BCP cannot handle that traffic, its not big enough. The same for Hull, Southampton, Dover and a host of other ports around the country. Even Felixstowe and Harwich will struggle to handle additional cargo from the EU

But we haven't even mentioned the Irish routes yet, they arrive in totally different parts of the Port (one in Birkenhead even), there's no infrastructure there and the goods cannot be transferred to the current BCP for 3 reasons;
Reason 1 - the BCP will not be able to handle the increase in containerised traffic never mind additional Irish traffic​
Reason 2 - Irish traffic is not containerised, it will not fit on the BCP​
Reason 3 - the best till last, all ferry terminals are outside of the custom controlled area. You cannot enter a customs controlled area willy-nilly. Its like walking through Customs at the airport and trying to leave and come back in​
So now we have all these goods which are subject to checks, that can't be checked due to a backlog. Fresh meat from Ireland requiring checks with nowhere to go and business requiring their goods. And all this has been fed back up t the ministers, and has done since Brexit preparations began 3 years ago

And FYI, if you're wondering why I'm quoting EU legislation it's because we will still be following it with the obvious amendment as per the Withdrawal Bill

So Pete, that's why backlogs will happen. All because of an incompetent government

What is this ‘additional‘ cargo from the EU. Is this cargo that originates in the EU and comes to the U.K. for outward distribution ? Similarly is this ‘jump’ in traffic to 42,000 destined for the EU entering via the U.K. ? If this is not the case could you explain. If this is the case, then it is not in the EU’s interest to help sort this out. If this is purely U.K. to EU and vice-versa then this should have been addressed. If it is 3rd Party to U.K. then to EU, or EU to U.K. for a 3rd party, then the EU will either re-route or sort the process...or have I misunderstood what you wrote. I do wish to understand.....
 
What is this ‘additional‘ cargo from the EU. Is this cargo that originates in the EU and comes to the U.K. for outward distribution ? Similarly is this ‘jump’ in traffic to 42,000 destined for the EU entering via the U.K. ? If this is not the case could you explain. If this is the case, then it is not in the EU’s interest to help sort this out. If this is purely U.K. to EU and vice-versa then this should have been addressed. If it is 3rd Party to U.K. then to EU, or EU to U.K. for a 3rd party, then the EU will either re-route or sort the process...or have I misunderstood what you wrote. I do wish to understand.....

The additional cargo is for the U.K. market but there’s no way to know the original Country of Origin.

it’s either from a Third Country which has first landed in the EU, then be subject to the checks discussed above, before being sent to the U.K. once goods receive clearance in accordance 2017/625 then they are free to move to any EU country with no further checks.

Come January 1st, the process of them receiving EU checks will stop, if the destination is the U.K. they will be classed as 3rd Country to 3rd Country transshipment by the EU and all official controls will need to be conducted by U.K. ports.

If the goods are of EU origin then they will be subject to enhanced controls like any other 3rd Country.

This same process will happen in the EU of course, but they prepared for this around 18 months ago by investing heavily in their Ports in terms of staffing levels . I think I posted about it.

Our Government is still debating what to do, this was the case 2 weeks before Brexit deadline as well in October. Fast forward 8 months and it’s still the same situation
 
The additional cargo is for the U.K. market but there’s no way to know the original Country of Origin.

it’s either from a Third Country which has first landed in the EU, then be subject to the checks discussed above, before being sent to the U.K. once goods receive clearance in accordance 2017/625 then they are free to move to any EU country with no further checks.

Come January 1st, the process of them receiving EU checks will stop, if the destination is the U.K. they will be classed as 3rd Country to 3rd Country transshipment by the EU and all official controls will need to be conducted by U.K. ports.

If the goods are of EU origin then they will be subject to enhanced controls like any other 3rd Country.

This same process will happen in the EU of course, but they prepared for this around 18 months ago by investing heavily in their Ports in terms of staffing levels . I think I posted about it.

Our Government is still debating what to do, this was the case 2 weeks before Brexit deadline as well in October. Fast forward 8 months and it’s still the same situation
Well there you go...

Value added I'd say
 
I'm completely against brexit for the simple reason that it's stupid. However, people moaning about chlorinated chicken feom the US surely can just choose not to eat it.
 
I'm completely against brexit for the simple reason that it's stupid. However, people moaning about chlorinated chicken feom the US surely can just choose not to eat it.
Only they can’t. As it’ll be in the food chain and the US will also not want it labelled as such, so we’ll bin off the EU food labelling regulations as well. Just watch.
 
Look at who voted for it.
Ok that was a silly and flippant answer. What I mean is that I view anything that diminishes people working together and decreases peoples life opportunities is a stupid idea.

I was brought up working class in Liverpool but was able to use freedom of movement to expand my career and life experiences in amazing ways, living and working in numerous countries.

I'm a libertarian by nature and lifestyle (not in the right wing economic way) so for me anything that builds borders and distance between people is annoying and dumb.

On a more societal level, we havent seen the good burghers of Blackburn etc rushing to pick fruit for minimum wage have we?

One could perhaps callously add that owing to the virus a lot of brexit voters have now been wiped out due to their age anyway. Therefore the youth have not only had to suffer in an attempt to save the aged and sick over the past few months but will also suffer due to the same aged and sick voting for Brexit (let's be honest).

I see no sense to it at all. But then I'm not carving up the new contracts to family and friends.
 
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