Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Seanjd]

I do love the narrative that leave voters are idiots who have been tricked to vote for pure evil.

It's this sneering attitude which made remain lose.

What narrative? Narrated by who?

Leave voters are in the majority, remember. In your post, you're as bad as those you condemn with your divisive attitude.

 

[Joey66]

I could point you to one of my posts on the LSE site if that'd help, but I feel that might make your head explode

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/06/brexit-britain-property-bubble
here's a Google back for you Bruce!

 

[SNova]

What narrative? Narrated by who?

Leave voters are in the majority, remember. In your post, you're as bad as those you condemn with your divisive attitude.

Remain campaigners were and are sneering ivory tower types for the most part. And it's that attitude which people are rejecting.

It isn't necessarily that, it is essentially the control of the information and its perception. It isn't difficult to sway opinion if you have an agenda and the means.

I voted leave for democratic reasons. Yet I am painted as some neo con nazi because, as far as I know, 17.5m people voted leave on the basis of immigration, which patently isn't true, but depending on which newspaper (sic) you read that would be the perception. It fits the narrative of the entire country shifting to the right and props up the plans, somewhat psychologically, of the current government. It is a sense of acquiescence, and as far fetched to some it may seem, does smack of 1930s Germany.
All the conditions for a fascist state are actually in place, in this country, right now. As they are across Europe.

The whole continent is shot. I'm actually at a loss as to how to redeem it, short of a bloodless revolution.

Yes, the West is moving towards the right, thankfully.

 

[magicjuan]

Remain campaigners were and are sneering ivory tower types for the most part. And it's that attitude which people are rejecting.



Yes, the West is moving towards the right, thankfully.

No, you don't appear to have the wherewithal to understand a simple point. The west shifted massively to the right over the last three decades, politically speaking, now it is extreme right wing, a de facto fascist conglomerate.

Of course if you wish to advocate fascism then feel free to do so clearly rather than use the normal posturing of the right wing and pass it off as 'values' austerity or some other nonsense, but being of a nazi persuasion doesn't sit well still with the general consensus.

 

[dholliday]

The main problem is all this name-calling, this negative labelling of others to better define oneself.

Tribalism and identity politics has become the defacto way to be, having overtaken the individualism of the 80's and 90's (which took over from the we are all one fever of the 60's & 70's).

My least favourite, to be honest...hoping for either a return to the oneness soon or some radical new idea which actually likes people.

 

[SNova]

No, you don't appear to have the wherewithal to understand a simple point. The west shifted massively to the right over the last three decades, politically speaking, now it is extreme right wing, a de facto fascist conglomerate.

Of course if you wish to advocate fascism then feel free to do so clearly rather than use the normal posturing of the right wing and pass it off as 'values' austerity or some other nonsense, but being of a nazi persuasion doesn't sit well still with the general consensus.

Yup we're living in extreme right wing right now.

Honest to God.

 

[Toffeelover]

Looks in - oh boy still same waffle - walks out.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/06/brexit-britain-property-bubble
here's a Google back for you Bruce!

"I thought, and still think, time and compromise will eventually stabilise Britain’s relations with the EU as not so different from today."

Would you be happy with that?

 

[Joey66]

"I thought, and still think, time and compromise will eventually stabilise Britain’s relations with the EU as not so different from today."

Would you be happy with that?

As long as it does not cost us 18 billion and give us a bit of soviet you back yes we will have to pay to be in the single market the free movement will be the deal buster IMO!

 

[Brennan]

As long as it does not cost us 18 billion and give us a bit of soviet you back yes we will have to pay to be in the single market the free movement will be the deal buster IMO!

 

[Joey66]

Very funny but you will find even without the rebates we will be 18 billion paid on schemes we want not ruddy cycle tracks etc!

 

[Old Blue 2]

I don't claim anything Joey, as I mentioned in my post, whilst I have contributed to the LSE Business Review, I am not John Van Reenen the author of the post.



As I said above, the article was written by John van Reenen, Professor of Applied Economics at the MIT Sloan School of Management, not me. If you managed to misunderstand the first line of my post it does make me wonder what else you misunderstood.

Bruce,
The point I'm trying to make, have been trying to make, and others in this thread have been trying to make since the result, is that I believe the counytry had had enough of these economic talking heads. The cadre of people who caused a lot of the world economies to tank in the mid-200s. Is it REALLY any wonder that ordinary people turn their backs on their spoutings? No it isn't.

And I know you come at the issue from a financial background (from what I have read), so you are only fighting your corner, which I fully understand. But always remember the military maxim: Never reinforce failure. The the 'Remain' campaign failed. The majority of those who voted were not taken in, or fooled, by the so-called ecomonic experts.

That's all that needs to be said really. I don't misunderstand anything. I see threough the bluster and piss and wind. It was how I was trained in a certain legal duty in my civil service life...

 

[Seanjd]

Bruce,
The point I'm trying to make, have been trying to make, and others in this thread have been trying to make since the result, is that I believe the counytry had had enough of these economic talking heads. The cadre of people who caused a lot of the world economies to tank in the mid-200s. Is it REALLY any wonder that ordinary people turn their backs on their spoutings? No it isn't.

And I know you come at the issue from a financial background (from what I have read), so you are only fighting your corner, which I fully understand. But always remember the military maxim: Never reinforce failure. The the 'Remain' campaign failed. The majority of those who voted were not taken in, or fooled, by the so-called ecomonic experts.

That's all that needs to be said really. I don't misunderstand anything. I see threough the bluster and piss and wind. It was how I was trained in a certain legal duty in my civil service life...

I'm not too sure who the economic experts the populous rebelled against are, to be honest. I thought this was a massive two fingered salute to the 'system'? Or the unelected European bureaucrats?

I think you're right when you say that the majority were not taken in by 'economic experts', if you class George Osborne as an economic expert, which I'm sure you don't.

 

[Seanjd]

That's all that needs to be said really. I don't misunderstand anything. I see threough the bluster and piss and wind. It was how I was trained in a certain legal duty in my civil service life...

And with all due respect, I think you have misunderstood the main motive for the leave vote.

 

[Old Blue 2]

I'm not too sure who the economic experts the populous rebelled against are, to be honest. I thought this was a massive two fingered salute to the 'system'? Or the unelected European bureaucrats?

I think you're right when you say that the majority were not taken in by 'economic experts', if you class George Osborne as an economic expert, which I'm sure you don't.

Where've you been these last few months? They were all over the media, preaching doom & gloom if the vote was to leave. The 'system' and the 'unelected European bureaucrats' were also in the overall mix of reasons, I believe.

And you are quite right, I don't class Osborne as an economic expert at all. This is the guy who threatened a swingeing budget if the vote was to pull out. A budget that would make ordinary people poorer. I do believe no great brain ticks there...