Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Disgruntledgoat]

I know it can feel like this but it's not really true is it? I just don't think the 'real job' matters all that much.

I think there is definitely something to it. How many front line politicians have ever worked in (in the case of the matter at hand) the private sector, actually experiencing how trade functions at a micro and macro level? How many making decisions on the NHS (to choose another example) have any experience in the health sector? Who was the last minister to serve in the armed forces (actually, knowing the answer to that. this is perhaps not helpful to my point).

Politicians should not be a self selecting cadre of people who decide early in life they quite like the idea of power over others and thus study PPE at Oxford.

 

[dead_soft]

I think there is definitely something to it. How many front line politicians have ever worked in (in the case of the matter at hand) the private sector, actually experiencing how trade functions at a micro and macro level? How many making decisions on the NHS (to choose another example) have any experience in the health sector? Who was the last minister to serve in the armed forces (actually, knowing the answer to that. this is perhaps not helpful to my point).

Politicians should not be a self selecting cadre of people who decide early in life they quite like the idea of power over others and thus study PPE at Oxford.

The thing is, there are only a maximum of 650 people who can be in there - that won't cover all professions and won't cover all within those professions. However, the figures show that 192 were in private business, 10 were doctors, 32 were in education, 19 were in manual work, 89 were in the legal profession (unsurprising considering the nature of the job). Whilst some become MPs young, or become aides (very few) and end up as MPs, most do have 'real jobs' - I just don't think it's as important as we suggest.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I think there is definitely something to it. How many front line politicians have ever worked in (in the case of the matter at hand) the private sector, actually experiencing how trade functions at a micro and macro level? How many making decisions on the NHS (to choose another example) have any experience in the health sector? Who was the last minister to serve in the armed forces (actually, knowing the answer to that. this is perhaps not helpful to my point).

Politicians should not be a self selecting cadre of people who decide early in life they quite like the idea of power over others and thus study PPE at Oxford.

I remember reading an interview with the writer of Yes Minister, and he describes being at Cambridge and the people in the union were the most pompous blowhards imaginable. He then reels off their names, and most of them had been in the cabinet at some point or other.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I remember reading an interview with the writer of Yes Minister, and he describes being at Cambridge and the people in the union were the most pompous blowhards imaginable. He then reels off their names, and most of them had been in the cabinet at some point or other.

Peter Oborne's book (authored before he went seemingly insane) The Rise of the Political Class was very good on this subject. I think Paxman did one too called The Political Animal.

 

[Barnfred 55]

In about 97 years time we might be back to where we are now but 'they' are not telling us what to do. As we live under a government with a big majority, but yet again less than half of the vote, people think we have rescued our democracy. We have not got a real one.

I have argued for a while that the first past the post system is not ideal, but it is what we are used to. For it to work effectively you need a strong opposition, and we don't have one at the moment.

Proportional representation, on the face of it, seems a much more fairer and democratic way of doing things. The countries that use this across Europe, like Germany, have done so for generations and have learned to work together to get things done. If there is anything I have learned from the last Tory government is that our political parties are currently not able to work together. If we changed our system now (which will never happen anyway whilst the Tories and Labour dominate our politics) then I'm convinced that nothing will ever get done.

Maybe we need a period of sustained hung parliaments where politicians have to get used to compromise. But that will take a long time and a lot of hardship.

 

[Rob17896]

I have argued for a while that the first past the post system is not ideal, but it is what we are used to. For it to work effectively you need a strong opposition, and we don't have one at the moment.

Proportional representation, on the face of it, seems a much more fairer and democratic way of doing things. The countries that use this across Europe, like Germany, have done so for generations and have learned to work together to get things done. If there is anything I have learned from the last Tory government is that our political parties are currently not able to work together. If we changed our system now (which will never happen anyway whilst the Tories and Labour dominate our politics) then I'm convinced that nothing will ever get done.

Maybe we need a period of sustained hung parliaments where politicians have to get used to compromise. But that will take a long time and a lot of hardship.

PR would force them to.

 

[Barnfred 55]

PR would force them to.

But how long would that take is the question. All the parties are stuck in their ways.

Perfect example here. When Johnson lost his majority the combined opposition parties had an opportunity to try and force through an opposition government (if that makes sense) and vote for a second referendum to try and stop Brexit. But the differences between the parties was so great that they couldn't even come to an agreement on such an important matter that most agreed on anyway.

 

[Rob17896]

Perfect example here. When Johnson lost his majority the combined opposition parties had an opportunity to try and force through an opposition government (if that makes sense) and vote for a second referendum to try and stop Brexit. But the differences between the parties was so great that they couldn't even come to an agreement on such an important matter that most agreed on anyway.
[/QUOTE]
You are correct but PR gives them nowhere else to go.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Perfect example here. When Johnson lost his majority the combined opposition parties had an opportunity to try and force through an opposition government (if that makes sense) and vote for a second referendum to try and stop Brexit. But the differences between the parties was so great that they couldn't even come to an agreement on such an important matter that most agreed on anyway.

You are correct but PR gives them nowhere else to go.
[/QUOTE]
That doesn't necessarily mean that they will agree on things though. How long of getting nothing done will it take before they learn.

It's a mute point anyway because whilst Tories and Labour dominate our political arena neither of them are going to give up their corner of power. The LibDems forced a referendum out of the Tories in 2010 when they were needed to gain a majority, so I suppose something similar may happen next time there is a hung parliament.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

The LibDems forced a referendum out of the Tories in 2010 when they were needed to gain a majority, so I suppose something similar may happen next time there is a hung parliament.

On the condition they did not try very hard. Hence the continuing distrust of anything from liberal party liberal.

 

[peteblue]

I know there is, and has been, hyperbole on both sides of the debate, but reading an article in the Guardian about Syria and the Eu and it’s lack of clout, I couldn’t help but wonder why we keep denigrating ourselves.

The last paragraph of the article...

”Whether the issue is Syria, the conflict in eastern Ukraine or Palestine (where Trump has again ignored EU policy), Europe is punching well below its weight, Von der Leyen’s strictures notwithstanding. This is not a new problem. But it is getting worse. As the US, China and Russia and their imitators play destructive global power games, the EU can only watch and fret. And Britain, drifting off, rudderless and irresponsible, into transatlantic limbo is no help at all.”

I do wish they would take a day off........

 

[Blues Harp]

She's either really stupid or deliberately misleading. Where's your money?

Another brain dead incompetent waste of oxygen.....and idiots voted for her party..

 

[Bruce Wayne]

229 MPs voted against giving EU citizens physical documentation to prove they have the right to remain in the country. Thank goodness Johnson was defeated, but what possible reason could you have for voting against giving people that peace of mind?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The penny still hasn't dropped for these plonkers about just what their beloved Brexit means.

 

[peteblue]

229 MPs voted against giving EU citizens physical documentation to prove they have the right to remain in the country. Thank goodness Johnson was defeated, but what possible reason could you have for voting against giving people that peace of mind?

Lords....it will be reversed in the commons. I agree with you, it seems such a sensible thing to do in addition to the electronic data.