Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%
  • Total voters
    1,013
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mellowblue said:
This "debate" is symptomatic of the absolute mess we are in...As a genuine question Pete, what solutions would you employ to make the NHS better. I may not agree with you but at least it may raise the debate from the levels of "my dad's bigger/better/more educated etc, than yours" I cannot afford private health insurance so I rely on a service which was brought into being by a Labour government. I feel that I may be at the mercy of a USA style health system which is frankly quite terrifying for me.
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No one wants a USA style NHS, I certainly don’t. I’ve seen the way it operates and I was not impressed. But turning around any organisation starts by getting the top level overall picture, dept by dept, then going down three levels and look and listen to those who actually do the work, where you inevitably get a totally different picture. Then you review the actual systems procedures against what actually happens and then start the who/what/why/when questions. Bearing in mind at all stages that clever turnaround person doesn’t really have a clue how a hospital operates and is merely trying to open up and challenge the people with the real knowledge to bring forward their own improvement. You then redraw the processes for each area, test the overall system by way of detailed review workshops to see where the weaknesses and wasted costs are and finesse it. Then the staffing and skills required can be added together with the overall budgets. Doing it at the NHS level is useless, it needs to be done at two or three hospitals, of different sizes and make up, before rolling out if successful. I would think it would take between 3-5 years per hospital, phased over a total of 8 years. The problem that the NHS has though is that ministers keep changing, governments change, and they all do knee jerk changes which still doesn’t allow them to get to the roots of the issues.......
 
Aqui1a said:
They don't need to be in government, they simply need to be in parliament and to vote.

lol My anger? Says the guy who started crying because I used italics in a couple of words. lol lol lol You like these smilies, don't ya bud?

Yes, a second referendum is very much against delivering Brexit, and it's very much against "trusting the people" as it says on that webpage I linked earlier.
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I'd say there is little point in honouring manifestos when the electorate have told you that they don't think your manifesto will allow you to form a government.

I'm not sure how asking people to confirm what type of Brexit, if at all, they want based on the past 3 years of debate.
 
peteblue said:
No one wants a USA style NHS, I certainly don’t. I’ve seen the way it operates and I was not impressed. But turning around any organisation starts by getting the top level overall picture, dept by dept, then going down three levels and look and listen to those who actually do the work, where you inevitably get a totally different picture. Then you review the actual systems procedures against what actually happens and then start the who/what/why/when questions. Bearing in mind at all stages that clever turnaround person doesn’t really have a clue how a hospital operates and is merely trying to open up and challenge the people with the real knowledge to bring forward their own improvement. You then redraw the processes for each area, test the overall system by way of detailed review workshops to see where the weaknesses and wasted costs are and finesse it. Then the staffing and skills required can be added together with the overall budgets. Doing it at the NHS level is useless, it needs to be done at two or three hospitals, of different sizes and make up, before rolling out if successful. I would think it would take between 3-5 years per hospital, phased over a total of 8 years. The problem that the NHS has though is that ministers keep changing, governments change, and they all do knee jerk changes which still doesn’t allow them to get to the roots of the issues.......
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I suspect those who can profit from it would.
 
JEBUS_LIVES said:
I'd say there is little point in honouring manifestos when the electorate have told you that they don't think your manifesto will allow you to form a government.

I'm not sure how asking people to confirm what type of Brexit, if at all, they want based on the past 3 years of debate.
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People still voted for Labour based on the promises they made in their manifesto. Just because you get fewer seats than another party doesn't mean you abandon your manifesto. Keep in mind by the way, 70% of Labour constituencies voted Leave. Also, Tories ran on a manifesto of delivering Brexit and won the most seats in parliament, so it doesn't make sense to say a party who supports delivering Brexit can't win enough seats to form a government.

Just to say again, 244 Labour MPs are sitting in parliament after running on a pro-Brexit manifesto.
 
Aqui1a said:
People still voted for Labour based on the promises they made in their manifesto. Just because you get fewer seats than another party doesn't mean you abandon your manifesto. Keep in mind by the way, 70% of Labour constituencies voted Leave. Also, Tories ran on a manifesto of delivering Brexit and won the most seats in parliament, so it doesn't make sense to say a party who supports delivering Brexit can't win enough seats to form a government.

Just to say again, 244 Labour MPs are sitting in parliament after running on a pro-Brexit manifesto.
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Just to say, that GE, unlike a referendum, aren't fought on single issues.
 
JEBUS_LIVES said:
Just to say, that GE, unlike a referendum, aren't fought on single issues.
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Regardless, it was part of the manifesto that got them elected - a big part. As everyone obviously knows, Brexit has dominated politics for the past few years, it's silly to argue that Brexit wasn't a huge factor in what got politicians elected at the last GE.
 
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