Current Affairs EU In or Out

[tsubaki]

As I said earlier in this thread, Johnson’s plan was always simple and clear, no master strategy - bring back a similar deal to may, with very little time to oppose it. He’d have much preferred to have no deal on the table as a threat to dissenting MPs, but I think he’ll get enough onside to get it over the line, without the Benn act coming into play.

How some are seeing it as some great feat of diplomacy is baffling, but for those people, Johnson could announce a kick in the crotch for every person in the country, and they’d be be eagerly forming a queue, while praising his ingenuity.

The deal is hard brexit enough to satisfy most Leavers, apart from the ardent No Deal weirdos, for whom, Brexit will never be ’Brexit enough’.

Hopefully, as and when we leave, we can see the end of the inane “17.4m”, “will of the people” shouts, and future conversations can finally happen on the basis of facts, rather than feelings. If it all goes well, after the transitional period, everyone will be happy.

It should be baffling, but it isn't. I would have thought that if this thread had taught us anything, its that certain posters will agree with anything that comes out of the mouth of a Tory leader that certain papers tell them is ok.

If the Mail came out tomorrow and said that Boris nationalizing British Rail was a good idea, we'd have pete on here within hours telling us about the glories of the Mark IV coach.

 

[orly]

Can we just be clear on one thing? This is a withdrawal agreement. It is scarcely 1% of what needs to be done here. We're talking as though Johnson and the EU have agreed the entire future relationship, or how citizens rights will be managed or any of the other vastly complicated aspects of our relationship with Europe. They haven't. They've agree the basic terms of Britain's withdrawal from the EU. Lets call a spade a spade.

Well, oddly enough, that's not quite true with the Johnson Deal

 

[tsubaki]

Well, oddly enough, that's not quite true with the Johnson Deal

It will require an awful lot of work though - for a start, if this passes he is going to have to negotiate a pathway to a commitment to a free trade deal (and the implication of lower regulatory standards) together with a commitment to a level playing field (and the same standards).

 

[tsubaki]

It's a bit late for me to go into major detail today, but Johnson has really put his opponents on the back foot over the past week or so, irrespective of what happens with the deal. Thats not to say if it fails there aren't major problems. Or that if it passes there will challenges re the BXP. However whenever they said "something up their sleeve" people wrongly assumed it was to do with no Deal, clearly it was to do with getting a deal.

He has moved away from the narrow lens of British constitutionalism and played the bigger picture. So far it looks to have united his party as far as he could have. In truth from about mid September he has done everything I'd have advised him of.

There are some serious questions for the left to answer here. If they treat him as a complete oaf, and continue to make mistakes, he and Cummins will punish them (it's what their strategy relies upon). Their really needs to be a big push for an election. Unless a serious effort is made for this, Johnson will grow stronger.

I'd finally say, don't rule out a deal tomorrow. Forget the projections/numbers etc. Politics, real politics is not about parliamentary arithmetic, it's about pressure and momentum being pursued. He has lots of that.

No, he hasn't. He has gone for the shortest of short term fixes here, relying on MPs signing up to any Brexit deal because of their cowardice.

Johnson has signed up to a deal that even May would have refused as being unacceptable, which very few people knew the contents of until yesterday, and is relying on his friends in the media to push it as a success until Saturday - hoping that noone prominent asks him why this deal puts the agents of a foreign power at internal checkpoints in the UK, or why the UK would have to pay rebates on EU-imposed customs duties at those checkpoints, or why he is now paying the billion pound a month that he was accusing Corbyn of wanting to pay, or why he has permanently put a border between the UK and Northern Ireland, or why he has probably just guaranteed that any investment that does actually come to the UK after Brexit is going to go to NI rather than anywhere else (because of the overwhelming advantages that area now enjoys compared to the mainland).

If this deal passes, and it might, people will very quickly realise what it involves and he (and they) will be punished for it.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Give us the right to choose - LSE Business Review

On Saturday 19 October 2019, the UK Parliament faces a historic choice over whether or not to vote through the new deal agreed by Boris Johnson and the European Union. Members should demand that the Johnson deal be put to the people against the alternative of a much better deal – remaining in...

blogs.lse.ac.uk

 

[orly]

It will require an awful lot of work though - for a start, if this passes he is going to have to negotiate a pathway to a commitment to a free trade deal (and the implication of lower regulatory standards) together with a commitment to a level playing field (and the same standards).

Well - funnily enough...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Well, oddly enough, that's not quite true with the Johnson Deal

He's providing a degree of direction, but nothing concrete (as befits a man so bereft of detail). There's nothing in his withdrawal agreement that outlines how, for instance, the rights of British and EU citizens are going to be handled. Nothing about how scientific collaboration will happen or data sharing. You know, the things that make EU membership so valuable. If any Brexiters can tell me how those things will be conducted going forward then I'm all ears.

 

[Eggs]

....what a position Corbyn and Labour have put themselves in. Possibly the best outcome for them is that the deal passes and Brexit causes pandemonium on the eve of a General Election.

Looks increasingly like a Tory win with a healthy majority at the next election, 5 more years of this lot. Momentum Labour in the wilderness appealing to the few and not the many.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

One of the most staggering things about all of this is that Johnson himself said that the deal he's bringing back was completely unacceptable (when it was May that was bringing it back). He's clearly allowed to change his mind, but the people aren't.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

....what a position Corbyn and Labour have put themselves in. Possibly the best outcome for them is that the deal passes and Brexit causes pandemonium on the eve of a General Election.

Looks increasingly like a Tory win with a healthy majority at the next election, 5 more years of this lot. Momentum Labour in the wilderness appealing to the few and not the many.

I wish politicians stopped thinking about what was best for 'them'. I couldn't give a fig what's best for them. They're supposed to represent the country, and Brexit is absolutely terrible for the country.

 

[dannyboy]

....what a position Corbyn and Labour have put themselves in. Possibly the best outcome for them is that the deal passes and Brexit causes pandemonium on the eve of a General Election.

Looks increasingly like a Tory win with a healthy majority at the next election, 5 more years of this lot. Momentum Labour in the wilderness appealing to the few and not the many.

Brexit has been a complete nightmare for Labour. Drained all of the momentum built from the 2017 election in a couple of years. Johnson will even have the Tories running on promises of ending austerity which will definitely dupe people into voting for them.

Always hope though. The last election was supposed to be the death of the Labour Party and that didn´t materialise.

 

[Eggs]

I wish politicians stopped thinking about what was best for 'them'. I couldn't give a fig what's best for them. They're supposed to represent the country, and Brexit is absolutely terrible for the country.

....absolutely. It’s all about power, it’s all about ego. It’s nothing to do with values, it’s nothing to do with ethics. We saw the hypocrisy in the Tory leadership contest with candidates giving Churchillian speeches against Prorogation, then standing behind it after being given senior cabinet posts. We’ve seen those rebelling against the May deal yet backing this one despite it containing elements they have spoken against.

I wish Scotland could take Liverpool with them!!

 

[spectateur]

I wish politicians stopped thinking about what was best for 'them'. I couldn't give a fig what's best for them. They're supposed to represent the country, and Brexit is absolutely terrible for the country.

It is indeed a sad spectacle to watch those politicians, those who are putting their re-election prospects, their ministerial ambitions and their party loyalty before their duty to the country.
Not forgetting of course their paramount financial interests.
I am very worried about how the future will pan out, I unfortunately can't see other than a returned tory government under Johnson. There is no organised opposition, personal and tribal objectives always being most important.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

....absolutely. It’s all about power, it’s all about ego. It’s nothing to do with values, it’s nothing to do with ethics. We saw the hypocrisy in the Tory leadership contest with candidates giving Churchillian speeches against Prorogation, then standing behind it after being given senior cabinet posts. We’ve seen those rebelling against the May deal yet backing this one despite it containing elements they have spoken against.

I wish Scotland could take Liverpool with them!!

What is in England will remain English, for the rest of Kingdom, well Mays deal with a blond wig if passed, is the starting pistol to the break up of the kingdom.

 

[neil999]

....what a position Corbyn and Labour have put themselves in. Possibly the best outcome for them is that the deal passes and Brexit causes pandemonium on the eve of a General Election.

Looks increasingly like a Tory win with a healthy majority at the next election, 5 more years of this lot. Momentum Labour in the wilderness appealing to the few and not the many.

We can criticise corbyn all we like, but at least he has stood firm on this tory brexit deal...looks like it could be some labour backbench dopes who might get it through!