Current Affairs EU In or Out

[JammyP]

I disagree with a lot of that; a Government formed out of “the rest” could well happen and it would be a viable way of fixing this mess.

For a start, Labour must enter with the intention of Corbyn being PM. The LDs, ex-Tories and “independents” will refuse to serve under him, making a Corbyn led government unsustainable (though not impossible).

Labour should get to the point where they actually refuse, proving to the public that the Libs and the rest are not serious about stopping Brexit “at any cost”.

Labour should then put forward an alternate figure, someone who the Libs could have no reason not to support, to head that Government. This would have to be someone who was on the Labour front bench and who had played a big role in the Brexit fight - Starmer, in other words.

Labour should then say that the unity government will renegotiate a deal and then hold a 2nd ref on that deal vs remain within six months, and get an extension on that basis. If the Libs and the others refuse that, a general election follows. If not, the next six months is spent negotiating (by Labour, probably Corbyn himself) and campaigning for the ref. Spending and other electoral law will be as for a GE and not as it was in 2016.

Once the ref result is back, implement it and have a GE.

About right. But if Keir Starmer comes in, he needs to do the negotiating with the EU.

 

[Bluerover]

Yum yum.

 

[JammyP]

 

[Bruce Wayne]

UK already up to £66bn poorer because of Brexit vote, study shows

Hit to national income – around £420m a week – greater than Boris Johnson’s discredited claim of a £350m boost to be lavished on the NHS

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Bluerover]

don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble with reality, but the majority of that enters the EU anyway. Foods of both animal and non-animal origin are controlled by regulations based risk of that product. There’s a higher risk for POAO goods due to zoonoses

so ginger from the US, for example, is not current under any import controls and can freely enter the union. it would not be stopped at the port of entry for rat droppings.

any rejections of foods can be viewed on RASFF Portal (Rapid Alert System for Food and Feed) and it’ll tell you the country of origin of the product and the reason for rejection. The majority of failures within Europe are of European origin

the chlorinated chicken thing is one of the most misused statements currently on the go. The issue doesn’t revolve around the chlorination process but the animal welfare issue of the animals

The issue of anti-microbial rinses that are used in US on meat is more fundamental than animal welfare.

The EU Hygiene Regs for POAO permits the use only of potable water for cleaning. Poor hygiene standards at processing plants in USA is masked by the reliance an antimicrobial substances, while poor on-farm husbandry is masked by a greater reliance on anti- biotics.

Both of these practices are leading to greater prevalence of AMR and this is a serious public health issue.

Separately there are also serious isdues around animal welfare but this is to do with poor farming practices rather than chlorination of meat products.

 

[JammyP]

UK already up to £66bn poorer because of Brexit vote, study shows

Hit to national income – around £420m a week – greater than Boris Johnson’s discredited claim of a £350m boost to be lavished on the NHS

www.independent.co.uk

And what would the pinko Trots at the Institue of Fiscal Studies know?
"...Sajid Javid’s spending plans are “close to the levels implied by Labour’s 2017 manifesto”, being far higher on the NHS, slightly higher on the police and “broadly matching” the party’s promises for schools.

Paul Johnson, the IFS director said: “The government is now adrift without any effective fiscal anchor.

“Given the extraordinary level of uncertainty and risks facing the economy and public finances, it should not be looking to offer further permanent overall tax giveaways in any forthcoming Budget.”"

Of course, as Gove said, the British people "have had enough of experts."

£66 Billion is only £1.25 billion a week - peanuts compared with the £350 million we will save for the NHS every week...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

And what would the pinko Trots at the Institue of Fiscal Studies know?
"...Sajid Javid’s spending plans are “close to the levels implied by Labour’s 2017 manifesto”, being far higher on the NHS, slightly higher on the police and “broadly matching” the party’s promises for schools.

Paul Johnson, the IFS director said: “The government is now adrift without any effective fiscal anchor.

“Given the extraordinary level of uncertainty and risks facing the economy and public finances, it should not be looking to offer further permanent overall tax giveaways in any forthcoming Budget.”"

Of course, as Gove said, the British people "have had enough of experts."

£66 Billion is only £1.25 billion a week - peanuts compared with the £350 million we will save for the NHS every week...

I'm waiting for James Cleverly to share a graph before jumping to conclusions tbh.

 

[orchard]

And what would the pinko Trots at the Institue of Fiscal Studies know?
"...Sajid Javid’s spending plans are “close to the levels implied by Labour’s 2017 manifesto”, being far higher on the NHS, slightly higher on the police and “broadly matching” the party’s promises for schools.

Paul Johnson, the IFS director said: “The government is now adrift without any effective fiscal anchor.

“Given the extraordinary level of uncertainty and risks facing the economy and public finances, it should not be looking to offer further permanent overall tax giveaways in any forthcoming Budget.”"

Of course, as Gove said, the British people "have had enough of experts."

£66 Billion is only £1.25 billion a week - peanuts compared with the £350 million we will save for the NHS every week...

You missed the bit where they state that the economy would also have grown substantially under the Labour policies.

 

[peteblue]

So why is your government saying otherwise? Why do they continue to peddle the line that no deal will be hunky dory?

Because after a short period it will be.....

 

[Amw79]

UK already up to £66bn poorer because of Brexit vote, study shows

Hit to national income – around £420m a week – greater than Boris Johnson’s discredited claim of a £350m boost to be lavished on the NHS

www.independent.co.uk

So now that we know that Parliament is actually sovereign, that our judiciary does control our own laws, we can control our borders, we will lose our ability to work and move freely around the EU, that we will lose our trade deal with EU countries, we are currently worse off pre-Brexit, we are predicted by the consensus to be worse off post-Brexit; the question is - what do Brexit voters think we will gain?

Is it now just to avoid losing face?

 

[JammyP]

Because after a short period it will be.....

Hi Pete. Do we need an expert to measure how long the short period will be?

 

[JammyP]

So now that we know that Parliament is actually sovereign, that our judiciary does control our own laws, we can control our borders, we will lose our ability to work and move freely around the EU, that we will lose our trade deal with EU countries, we are currently worse off pre-Brexit, we are predicted by the consensus to be worse off post-Brexit; the question is - what do Brexit voters think we will gain?

Is it now just to avoid losing face?

As someone ITK put it "what’s at stake is not winning some stupid blame game"

 

[Bruce Wayne]

So now that we know that Parliament is actually sovereign, that our judiciary does control our own laws, we can control our borders, we will lose our ability to work and move freely around the EU, that we will lose our trade deal with EU countries, we are currently worse off pre-Brexit, we are predicted by the consensus to be worse off post-Brexit; the question is - what do Brexit voters think we will gain?

Is it now just to avoid losing face?

We'll never have to set eyes on a pierogi ever again.

 

[davek]

Ha Ha Ha.

Just heard about the Merkel / Johnson exchange.

FFS, this country's a laughing stock.

Germany: about as calm a negotiator and straight arrow as there is in diplomacy reduced to raging against this man-child walloper.

 

[nsno-chris]

The issue of anti-microbial rinses that are used in US on meat is more fundamental than animal welfare.

The EU Hygiene Regs for POAO permits the use only of potable water for cleaning. Poor hygiene standards at processing plants in USA is masked by the reliance an antimicrobial substances, while poor on-farm husbandry is masked by a greater reliance on anti- biotics.

Both of these practices are leading to greater prevalence of AMR and this is a serious public health issue.

Separately there are also serious isdues around animal welfare but this is to do with poor farming practices rather than chlorination of meat products.

by animal welfare I was referring to poor hygiene practices within abattoirs, I could have chosen better wording (even though welfare of animals is an issue in these circumstances). However there is no human risk element from chlorinated chicken, as per an EFSA report

although 853/2004 does have the requirements for the washing of such products in water the argument has been back forth with the commission to reduce the levels within their regulations. The carcinogenic risk is nonexistent, it’s the same issue with the migration of melamine and polyamide from Chinese plastics