Current Affairs EU In or Out

[ToffeeTim]

Sounds odd at first...but.

The more I think of it the more I like it.

Labour go to Brussels agree a deal with the EU.

There is absolutely no deal anyone can agree with the EU that will be better than the deal we have now.... i.e. membership of the European Union.

If anyone doesn’t realise that by now they ain’t been paying attention this past three years.

Labour then put it to the country in a Referendum.

“This is the best deal we could negotiate.......we know it is worse than staying in.

Ergo we are advising against it.

But it is your choice......either accept the deal or remain.

We think it is better to stay in”.

And that is what should have happened in t’ first place......in the first Referendum the cart was put before the horse.

The choice should have been between a clearly defined version of Brexit and Remain.

Well done Labour for a bit of blue sky thinking .

.

I think it's mental myself. And a big vote loser too.

It would be like an insurance broker looking you up the best deal they can find but on the basis that they would then advise you to turn it down and look elsewhere.

For me, this is clearly going to be a brexit election. So labour so just be remain. No other nonsense, just remain. Especially since boris is going to go 100% leave and no deal/wto terms.

Wishy washy attempts at being all things to all men will fail. Voters want clarity.

 

[Joey66]

I think it's mental myself. And a big vote loser too.

It would be like an insurance broker looking you up the best deal they can find but on the basis that they would then advise you to turn it down and look elsewhere.

For me, this is clearly going to be a brexit election. So labour so just be remain. No other nonsense, just remain. Especially since boris is going to go 100% leave and no deal/wto terms.

Wishy washy attempts at being all things to all men will fail. Voters want clarity.

Elenor Thornberry described it last night on QT, and basically the audience laughed out loud at such a proposal could be taken seriously -
Your correct it's the biggest vote loser going .........

 

[Old Blue 2]

1. there's third-party evidence for the moon landings, from China and Russia.

2. agreed.

3. it's a possibility.

1. And there's a USA flag blowing in the wind on a 'no atmosphere' moon! And to that the lack of technology in how to get through the van Allen belt (both ways) in 1969. Hmmm...

3. The miniscule amount of debris that reached Tower 7, coupled with how that tower came down together with the techie experts who have spoken about bringing down such structures with controlled internal demolition charges, leads me to believe that it was was an internal controlled demolition. And that kind of thing can't be organised in an hour or so...

 

[BlueToff]

I think it's mental myself. And a big vote loser too.

It would be like an insurance broker looking you up the best deal they can find but on the basis that they would then advise you to turn it down and look elsewhere.

For me, this is clearly going to be a brexit election. So labour so just be remain. No other nonsense, just remain. Especially since boris is going to go 100% leave and no deal/wto terms.

Wishy washy attempts at being all things to all men will fail. Voters want clarity.

S'pose the thing holding Labour back is a large amount of the elctorate in their seats (especially in the north) voted leave. Where do those voters go if Labour say they're remain (after three years btw of saying they would respect the result of the referendum)?

 

[tsubaki]

You can't have only a certain deal and remain as options. Lots would prefer a different brexit. Leave or remain was clearly the right question.

You also can't negotiate anything sensible when the other party know you are going to tell your voters to reject it.

It's probably the daftest policy I've ever heard.

This is a collection of mad arguments. For a start, I find it almost impossible to understand how you can say "lots would prefer a different brexit" and then say that Leave - any leave - vs Remain is the right question. Sorry to vault you as well, but I think what you said nearer the time was a lot more sensible.

As for "You also can't negotiate anything sensible when the other party know you are going to tell your voters to reject it" - again, that is not what the Labour policy is, and to be honest I struggle to see the distinction between that imaginary Labour policy you find so hilarious and what Cameron did before the referendum anyway.

 

[WA Toffee]

1. And there's a USA flag blowing in the wind on a 'no atmosphere' moon! And to that the lack of technology in how to get through the van Allen belt (both ways) in 1969. Hmmm...

3. The miniscule amount of debris that reached Tower 7, coupled with how that tower came down together with the techie experts who have spoken about bringing down such structures with controlled internal demolition charges, leads me to believe that it was was an internal controlled demolition. And that kind of thing can't be organised in an hour or so...

The flag wasn’t blowing in the wind though. Your “no atmosphere” comment actually explains it

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Sounds odd at first...but.

The more I think of it the more I like it.

Labour go to Brussels agree a deal with the EU.

There is absolutely no deal anyone can agree with the EU that will be better than the deal we have now.... i.e. membership of the European Union.

If anyone doesn’t realise that by now they ain’t been paying attention this past three years.

Labour then put it to the country in a Referendum.

“This is the best deal we could negotiate.......we know it is worse than staying in.

Ergo we are advising against it.

But it is your choice......either accept the deal or remain.

We think it is better to stay in”.

And that is what should have happened in t’ first place......in the first Referendum the cart was put before the horse.

The choice should have been between a clearly defined version of Brexit and Remain.

Well done Labour for a bit of blue sky thinking .

.

Those who become entrenched and very likely partisan to a particular ideology won't like this approach, as it actually exposes them to a decision they themselves have to make, the binary yes and no of the EU referendum, creates lots of cover which to shoehorn other beliefs

 

[Kev The Rat]

Out of interest, who would be the political mastermind behind this?

You have arch Brexiteers Mogg and Johnston as active participants in this and I’m curious as to who you think is the conductor?

Initially I would say it started with Cameron and probably involved Boris as well, who anticipated a remain victory. The Tories have been desperate for the Brexit question to disappear so that they can return to being the party of euroscepticism Without actually having to do anything about it. What we have seen since then is tactical withdrawals by remainers like Cameron, Clarke etc while this plays itself out to its inevitable (remain) conclusion.

I doubt if May was an active participant, however her stance meant she was useful to them. You dismiss Rees Mogg and Johnson as arch eurosceptics and perhaps they are, however party loyalty / unity I would suggest means more to them ultimately as they would be in UKIP / Brexit Party otherwise.

 

[Xizor]

You can't have only a certain deal and remain as options. Lots would prefer a different brexit...

Well, exactly. That's the entire reason Leave won and we're in this mess - 'Leave' was allowed to become this vague "whatever you want" proposal that could hoover up votes from all the people that wanted a soft Brexit, a hard Brexit, a somewhere-in-the-middle Brexit, a WTO Brexit etc... all without any intention of delivering on multiple incompatible vote-winning outcomes, and at the same time without even being a party that could suffer electoral blowback for being so duplicitous.

If the deal was arranged beforehand (and I know that was impossible given the way A50 works) and put on the ballot paper directly against Remain, with no wiggle room for 'actually we could get this instead' shenanigans, then there's no way Leave would have won as the electorate wouldn't have been led to pin their own fantasy version of Brexit on the vague 'Leave' promise. I've asked on here if people would have voted Leave if May's WA specifically was on the ballot paper against Remain and I never get a straight answer.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Elenor Thornberry described it last night on QT, and basically the audience laughed out loud at such a proposal could be taken seriously -
Your correct it's the biggest vote loser going .........

Have you been following what the government have been doing the last few weeks Joe?

 

[I Miss Chang]

You can't have only a certain deal and remain as options. Lots would prefer a different brexit.

So... all 27 EU states are meant to negotiate and approve a whole range of different possible Brexit deals for the various flavours of Leave voter to sift through at their convenience?

Your post suggests it has not even really occurred to you yet that Britain is not the only actor in this drama.

I can sympathise with people who voted Leave out of desperation, as an emotional reaction to the effects of the Tory/Lib Dem horror show, but at a certain point, if Leavers are still not willing to grow up a bit and venture beyond the realm of fantasy, they'll have no one but themselves to blame when events eventually pass them by.

 

[Armaghtoffee]

Initially I would say it started with Cameron and probably involved Boris as well, who anticipated a remain victory. The Tories have been desperate for the Brexit question to disappear so that they can return to being the party of euroscepticism Without actually having to do anything about it. What we have seen since then is tactical withdrawals by remainers like Cameron, Clarke etc while this plays itself out to its inevitable (remain) conclusion.

I doubt if May was an active participant, however her stance meant she was useful to them. You dismiss Rees Mogg and Johnson as arch eurosceptics and perhaps they are, however party loyalty / unity I would suggest means more to them ultimately as they would be in UKIP / Brexit Party otherwise.

For your proposition to be true, that would mean Johnson is putting the party ahead of himself and is willing to be the butt of ridicule to do so.

I’m not buying that Kev.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Elenor Thornberry described it last night on QT, and basically the audience laughed out loud at such a proposal could be taken seriously -
Your correct it's the biggest vote loser going .........

It's the biggest vote loser going to the people who want a hard brexit. It never ceases to amaze me how myopic people can be that their view is the only view or at least the most popular in the face of all evidence. Just like the people who vehemently support BJ/JC think there side will romp to victory in an election (they are most likely wrong).

There are large swathes of this country who voted on either side would vote for a negotiated deal to prevent a no deal Brexit. Probably most ardent remainers would be willing to go along with it too in the hope that with remain on the paper people then chose that.

Seeing that nearly half of the people voted to remain anyhow, allied with the people who voted for a non-no deal leave, I would say that strategy is more vote winning than simply saying leave at all costs, or exclusively remain.

 

[Barnfred 55]

So... all 27 EU states are meant to negotiate and approve a whole range of different possible Brexit deals for the various flavours of Leave voter to sift through at their convenience?

Your post suggests it has not even really occurred to you yet that Britain is not the only actor in this drama.

I can sympathise with people who voted Leave out of desperation, as an emotional reaction to the effects of the Tory/Lib Dem horror show, but at a certain point, if Leavers are still not willing to grow up a bit and venture beyond the realm of fantasy, they'll have no one but themselves to blame when events eventually pass them by.

Were you born a patronising nobhead or is it just something you have picked up over the years.

 

[Anders_Limpar]

I would imagine these stories will become increasingly common: