Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Bruce Wayne]

Oh, sorry, how could I possibly doubt it. It's a waste of time commenting on here. Remainers are always right and leavers are always wrong.

You're right about some things

 

[TyphooToffee]

The 'or else' wasn't powerful enough in this instance to make a difference. It is laughable to think that the EU would just crumble because the threat of no deal. The EU has a responsibility to the other 27 countries, including Ireland who share a border and its own very existence. Too may concessions to the UK then what is the point of being in the club when they can have the juiciest benefits without freedom of movement etc.?

Or let's make it hard on the UK because others are already lining up to leave?

 

[The binman chronicles]

Or let's make it hard on the UK because others are already lining up to leave?

Same difference in the end. You have to be very silly as an organisation to sign something that compromises your raison d'être.

We didn't need to be in the vanguard for this, eventually one of the big countries on the continent will try to leave and that may cause the rethink.

 

[thirdmantackle]

This may happen, that may happen. The trouble is, May happened to go in lily-liveried, bowing and scraping without an "or else!" due to a Remainer parliament.

You don't go into a negotiation with an 'or else' clause.

That's what hitler and stalin did in the 1930s

 

[TyphooToffee]

I'm not sure how you can gather this on the basis of me pointing out that someone that isn't factually correct about something isn't spreading disinformation, but sure, if you say so.

OK, you're calling either my mother or me a liar then. I crossed from South to North London yesterday to see her. I see her every week (I'm one of seven siblings so she is never on her own much) and I know all of the carers because I field phone calls and am often there when the carers are. My mum is 91, lives at home and has all her marbles so she does not easily get confused.

 

[thirdmantackle]

Same difference in the end. You have to be very silly as an organisation to sign something that compromises your raison d'être.

We didn't need to be in the vanguard for this, eventually one of the big countries on the continent will try to leave and that may cause the rethink.

Like who?

What sane country is going to try and leave the single market?

 

[TyphooToffee]

You don't go into a negotiation with an 'or else' clause.

That's what hitler and stalin did in the 1930s

I give up. "Or else we'll leave without a deal" is now comparing our PM to Hitler or Stalin. Some of you should think harder before posting because you just make yourself look stupid.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Oh, sorry, how could I possibly doubt it. It's a waste of time commenting on here. Remainers are always right and leavers are always wrong.

We become a third country in the eyes of the EU in the event of a NO Deal. So GDPR, which are EU regulations won't apply. It's simple really. You negotiate this as part of a WA, but No Deal throws that out of the window. Here's @Bruce Wayne and I discussing it earlier in the thread.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/european-institute/sites/european-institute/files/eu-uk_data_flows_brexit_and_no-deal.pdf

Impact of no deal on data flows between the UK and EU

“Many organisations will not have set up the necessary alternative legal arrangements by then and could therefore face enforcement action and large fines from EU regulators for unlawful EU-UK data transfers,”

Big worry in the NHS this. Particularly where data is processed or analysed in Europe. Currently it can be sent and received without any friction. We will still be able to send things to Europe in the event of No Deal but we might not get the information back.

And the EU have been doing a lot of stuff on data portability, especially in healthcare that largely go unnoticed by the general public. One of those very unfortunate casualties of all this as it probably qualifies as some of that 'political integration' stuff that doesn't get covered by any trade deal (ever).

It's huge in the NHS. Particularly for cross EU activity such as medicines and vaccine manufacturing. on an individual basis, the last I heard there wasn't a conclusive answer on what would happen regarding reciprocal healthcare in the event of No Deal. It could have serious implication if you're receiving treatment which will start prior to 31st October but continue afterwards. It has costing implications, insurance implications, questions regarding standards of care and equipment but importantly the data and access to records for that individual.

Everything will take more time. If you think they delay exists in the NHS now, when you can order medical equipment from the Netherlands, Scandinavia and Germany and get it the next day, what is it going to be like when we have no freedom of goods and services.

It won't mean it won't get there at all, but it will be a delay and currently a lot of trusts aren't set up to receive clinical devices and goods out if hours, so that will have to be a resource that is now in place to accommodate a No Deal.

It doesn't take much to disrupt the system in the NHS for patients to start feeling the effects and the bracket that will be hit will be the most vulnerable of patients but also those in the 60+ bracket. I hope that when the inevitable demand that 'something be done about it' the answer comes firmly back 'this is what you voted for' and the 1.8b is a drop in the ocean compared to what needed.

By all means correct me and @Bruce Wayne if we're wrong. I'd personally love to have my mind put at rest.

Edit: While the UK has suggested it will adopt GDPR into UK law it doesn't cover all of the areas that would normally be free as a member of the EU.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I give up. "Or else we'll leave without a deal" is now comparing our PM to Hitler or Stalin. Some of you should think harder before posting because you just make yourself look stupid.

I agree you always need a fallback or a way out in any negotiation but the "No Deal" option is too stupid for words. Hence you can try and claim you have an alternative to a deal but if nobody believes it what's the point?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

 

[random]

What punitive costs are these?

2018 contribution percentages according to statista.com

Germany 20%
France 15%
UK 11%
Italy 11%
Spain 8%
Netherlands 5%
Belgium 4%

so if we are responsible for 11% and are asked to be paying 39 Billion then it stands to reason that the figure would be calculated for all the other member states according to their %. can you show me where France will be paying out 53 Billion ?
(not taking into account any increase because we are supposed to be leaving)
I read the payment was a ‘divorce bill’ - I have no problem us paying what we owe, but 39 billion sounds a tad high for any payments due upto the end of the current budget date.

Plenty of quotes from Junker, Hollande etc saying the UK must be punished going back years. How are we being punished if not financially ?

 

[thirdmantackle]

I give up. "Or else we'll leave without a deal" is now comparing our PM to Hitler or Stalin. Some of you should think harder before posting because you just make yourself look stupid.

In any negotiation you cannot have an 'or else' policy. It just doesn't work.

You meet the opposition half way. You'll get some things, and not get others. That's the way it works.

I mean, the EU gave the UK 2 years to sort out some sort of deal and they were incapable of doing it

 

[thirdmantackle]

2018 contribution percentages according to statista.com

Germany 20%
France 15%
UK 11%
Italy 11%
Spain 8%
Netherlands 5%
Belgium 4%

so if we are responsible for 11% and are asked to be paying 39 Billion then it stands to reason that the figure would be calculated for all the other member states according to their %. can you show me where France will be paying out 53 Billion ?
(not taking into account any increase because we are supposed to be leaving)
I read the payment was a ‘divorce bill’ - I have no problem us paying what we owe, but 39 billion sounds a tad high for any payments due upto the end of the current budget date.

Plenty of quotes from Junker, Hollande etc saying the UK must be punished going back years. How are we being punished if not financially ?

UK is leaving the single market and customs union
That's a huge self punishment

It's completely bonkers.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Project Fear nonsense.

 

[random]

UK is leaving the single market and customs union
That's a huge self punishment

It's completely bonkers.

who mentioned self punishment ? are all remain voters in some sort of cult where the EU can do no wrong and are so benevolent that we are not being punished by them in any way at all ?

seriously ?