Current Affairs EU In or Out

[sbbefc]

A rumour Johnson will prorogue parliment is circulating imo no different than Corbyn coup to get the keys of no 10 - he and 500 MPs voted Article 50 through ....... did they not realise they were setting a law to leave the EU on the back of a referendum of a massive ballot they stated in both manifestos of the two main parties they would honour......
We have become a banana republic.....
leaving the EU with a good deal is a necessity ......

They voted to trigger article 50 because negotiations couldn't take place with the EU until then. They were honouring the referendum result. The fact that everything since then has gone disastrously wrong is the tory party/ukip/brexit/ERG/DUPs fault. Because guess what, those parties combined have a majority and should have got your brexit over the line.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

There is a lot going on. We’ve got the EU keeping their story together and we’ve got a load of distrustful anti U.K. politicians actively seeking to undermine our governments negotiations. Yet even with the best destructive aims of Corbyn, Soubry, that woman from the Lib Dem’s and the other tree hugger, Boris seems to be making headway.......

This legislative route could well be successful in stopping a no deal Brexit, and it's pleasing that opposition party leaders appear to have had a fairly productive and cordial meeting today. Pleasing day indeed.

 

[random]

In a functional democracy,

.......The elected officials would carry out the mandate that was voted for by a majority and as they said they would in their manifestos'.

Now remind me, which side are the Leavers currently occupying in this travesty of democracy?

And the remain side ? how about the travesty where the referendum result wasn't carried out ? lets not be too selective in how democracy works shall we.

To be honest I couldn't care less if we stay in or leave, both sides of the argument have shown themselves to be selfish and self-absorbed in the extreme to try to get what they want, if folks showed a bit more understanding of the predicament of others in society we would not be in this mess in the 1st place.

Comical Ali would have his hands full keeping up with the tales being told about this whole sorry state of affairs by both sides.

I am yet to be convinced why staying in is such a good thing for the people in this area, and I doubt leaving will make a blind bit of difference to folks around here either.

 

[Xizor]

And the remain side ? how about the travesty where the referendum result wasn't carried out ? lets not be too selective in how democracy works shall we.

Remainers are part of the legislative branch, since Johnson expunged them from government. The referendum was purely advisory so no travesty at all if it doesn't happen, it can hardly be argued it wasn't even attempted. It's not remotely selective to hold Parliament sovereign. Unless of course you're a Leaver, when apparently you can flip-flop on the issue depending on the day of the week.

For all the Leavers' talk of high-minded democratic principles, we operate a Parliamentary system of government. Vaguely-spun referendums don't easily sit within that structure and this whole thing should never have happened.

 

[random]

The referendum was purely advisory

Ah yes that one. It was made perfectly clear to everyone before hand that is was just advisory and if the voting wasn't to the establishments liking they would ignore the result.
I missed the memo because if I had known that at the time I would not have bothered making the effort to vote.

Another I haven't heard for a few days is a politician telling me that they respect the result of the referendum but.......... (and then explain why they are not respecting the result)

 

[Joey66]

So you want to give everyone more time to work to sort a good deal?

It will happen after we leave .,.

 

[Joey66]

Well quite. The head of the executive (Johnson) wants to prevent the legislative (Parliament) sitting because he knows they won't wave through his plans and some are actively hostile to them. In a functional democracy, an executive branch that doesn't have the support of the legislative for its key policies either changes its policies or changes the legislative branch, through an election. In banana republics, as you say, the executive does things like prevent the legislative sitting, or actively arrests them etc. to intimidate them into supporting the executive (or more reliably stuffs them full of supporters beforehand, but that's problematic here).

Now remind me, which side are the Leavers currently occupying in this travesty of democracy?

Democracy referendum -
Legal law over 500 MPs voted for article 50 ....is we leave the EU...
That's the law as it stands.....

 

[Xizor]

Ah yes that one. It was made perfectly clear to everyone before hand that is was just advisory and if the voting wasn't to the establishments liking they would ignore the result.

My reply is purely based on how our democracy actually works, not any of the 'he said, she said' around why people should have voted. Obviously if the result had been ignored entirely it would have been fairly outrageous, but Parliament have been trying for years and not managed it. There comes a time when enough is enough. And yes, there would be incredible electoral blowback on that. I've maintained for a while that there's no solution to this mess that doesn't involve a faction taking a massive, possibly fatal, hit to their viability.

This is why I'm coming to believe that one of the underlying motives for Brexit was to force Parliament into a situation it would be unlikely to be able to resolve, so as to create upheaval and opportunities at the top end of national politics for insurgent forces like Farage. You can't offer to fix a system that's running along the same as it has been for centuries.

 

[Xizor]

That's the law as it stands.....

Sure is. Good thing laws can be changed

 

[Xizor]

It will happen after we leave .,.

After we're forced into a humiliating climbdown over the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement (or worse) after the EU & US refuse to negotiate?

Why do you hate the UK so much Joey? Why can't you be a patriot like those of us that want the country to make grown up decisions and act our age on the world stage, showing real leadership?

 

[dead_soft]

There is a lot going on. We’ve got the EU keeping their story together and we’ve got a load of distrustful anti U.K. politicians actively seeking to undermine our governments negotiations. Yet even with the best destructive aims of Corbyn, Soubry, that woman from the Lib Dem’s and the other tree hugger, Boris seems to be making headway.......

Oh come one Pete, it’s just so so silly. How are they anti-UK?
Your love of a man who wants to go around parliament whilst deriding those who are ‘anti-democratic’ shows you up as very, very, silly.

 

[Joey66]

Sure is. Good thing laws can be changed

Law by a coop is a very desperate attempt to stop a democratic vote twice once in a referendum, and also in the two main parties manifestos a GE is looking very likely, and Corbyn stands no chance with his latest antics.......

 

[dead_soft]

It will happen after we leave .,.

Why will it happen after we leave when it hasn’t happened before we leave?

 

[Joey66]

After we're forced into a humiliating climbdown over the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement (or worse) after the EU & US refuse to negotiate?

Why do you hate the UK so much Joey? Why can't you be a patriot like those of us that want the country to make grown up decisions and act our age on the world stage, showing real leadership?

DEMOCRACY.'...

 

[random]

I've maintained for a while that there's no solution to this mess that doesn't involve a faction taking a massive, possibly fatal, hit to their viability.

And whoever it is I have zero sympathy for them. These people are elected to look out for us and everyone of them is just there to get their snout in the trough for as long as possible and when they leave have another cushy number lined up.

I have the same disdain for politicians as they have for the ordinary guy in the street