Current Affairs EU In or Out

[magicjuan]

No friend. The members states dictate what goes in the treaties.

These govern and establish the European Union.

All laws come from these treaties.

None of these include the word 'federal'

Infact historically this is why European 'community' was used in terminology. The British government at the time refused to allow the word 'federal' to be allowed into the treaties.

Juncker in 1992 tried to force it (federalism) on Europe. However the UK vetoed it.

Hence... today.

Martinezesque....

 

[bizzaro]

Martinezesque....

No mate. We call it

'Junckerism'

An attempt to BS a way for the EU to become a federal state.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Mate. I'm old enough to remember the cold war. Things are no different now to then except maybe smaller.

It was always thus in NATO and this has nothing to do with the EU.

The EU has only really mounted naval missions off Somalia and the med.

The rest are tiny and mainly involving French forces.

The UK may have contributed a few ships. A battalion or two to training operations. The UK has never participated in EUROFOR operations other than providing officers.

In fact what was involved primarily were similar to cold war WEU operations involving Franko-German structures.

Anything major involving would have been NATO related. So it's just nonsense.

Fair enough biz. I'm old enough to remember the cold war also. All I did was pass on here what was said.

 

[magicjuan]

No mate. We call it

'Junckerism'

An attempt to BS a way for the EU to become a federal state.

It already is.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and is sh1t scared of pancakes and hoi sin sauce...

 

[bobbydigital]

Whilst being very much an 'in' in relation to a re-balance of the economy I did hear a very rational leave argument today.
A weaker pound makes exports easier. Manufacturing will get a boost from that along with other exports. Our balance of payments is awful because the pound is too strong and has been for a long time. Stronger manufacturing should increase work in midlands and north, therefore if we put sufficient training in place this could be very useful. Further they went on to say we should exit single market as trade tariffs tend to be around 3% and the fall in currency will more than compensate.
This does not deal with many important issues but it was a clear and calm argument relating to the economy and was the first sensible leave argument I have heard.

It is a relevant argument but there is a lot of complexity to it. It's not like all the raw materials and fixed assets are sourced from the UK and staff will want to be paid more to compensate for the increased cost of living as imported goods will be a lot more expensive with a devalued sterling and tariffs, quotas etc in play. Just saying there are a few more variables to consider but it is a valid point.

Problem is if it doesn't work as soon as big business see a better scenario elsewhere they are off. They won't show loyalty to their staff and their community at the expense of reduced profits.

 

[Rob17896]

It is a relevant argument but there is a lot of complexity to it. It's not like all the raw materials and fixed assets are sourced from the UK and staff will want to be paid more to compensate for the increased cost of living as imported goods will be a lot more expensive with a devalued sterling and tariffs, quotas etc in play. Just saying there are a few more variables to consider but it is a valid point.

Problem is if it doesn't work as soon as big business see a better scenario elsewhere they are off. They won't show loyalty to their staff and their community at the expense of reduced profits.

Loyalty...whatever happened to that?

 

[Ashtonian]

So what happens now?

As to my understanding triggering article 50 will release us (over time) from the EU. Until we trigger it then technically we are still part of the EU.

Except the EU are behaving like children and saying you aren't invited to the EU anymore, trigger the article.

Now i seen they might not do that until the government has a plan on managing it.

Which kinda leaves things in limbo does it not? Part but not part of the EU at the same time.

 

[Lee Smith]

Won't be Boris then...

 

[wikofootball]

So the [Poor language removed] that took The. Country. Out of the EU

have fooked off.. Surely. That. The basis for 2nd referendum lies lies and more dam lies

 

[Ashtonian]

So the [Poor language removed] that took The. Country. Out of the EU

have fooked off.. Surely. That. The basis for 2nd referendum lies lies and more dam lies

Still think it is amazing to be honest. How they cannot re run the vote considering all what has come out since is laughable. I'm not one for doing that but essentially as they have no plan and not one of them is stepping up to take control, just means that only gove? is standing up and taking the responsibility on.

In fact if he is still running, Gove as failed educational sec and hunt as failed health sec basically both accused of bullying tactics and has no support from their areas of interest. And that is our choice for prime minister?!

 

[Joey66]

Won't be Boris then...

Infomy the got it him for him Gove stabbed him in the front leaked e mail my backside great publicity stunt for give and his wife and the mail , and Murdoch empire!
The other candidates Theresa May is the one that has let immigration outside Europe balloon never heard anything like a points system to control it from her either!

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Infomy the got it him for him Gove stabbed him in the front leaked e mail my backside great publicity stunt for give and his wife and the mail , and Murdoch empire!

Far from it being good publicity, mate - gove missus has essentially made him commit political hara-kiri.

She stabbed camoron (His missus was her bezzie mate, apparently) in the back, and put the kybosh on boris' bid before it was even began.

He'll have very few allies in the party come the failure of his bid. The backbenches beckon.

EDIT: D'oh! Done it again....Thought it was the conservative thread, sorry!

 

[Ashtonian]

So politicially the referendum has killed politics in this country in one fell swoop?

Conservatives Have no real leader nor one to come in. Highest runners stated no interest in the job previously, one of them opposed the result of the referendum. So Moving foreard they aren't really in the best position to run the country seeings though they need to take a step back and sort out direction.

Labour are telling Corbyn to go, he refusing and now the perfect chance for them to come in and take control and they are fighting with each other! So that is their chance blown also.
Lib Dems are just not involved at all, their one slight glimmer of opportunity and they aren't seizing it at all.


Just crazy really, whoever comes away from this mess has a half arsed leader and a split party with still no plan to move forward. and the country is being frozen out until they start the process to leave!

 

[hullefc]

Now we know why she pushed him to stand. Doesn't want him around and there is more chance of that as leader than a back-bencher.

"Summer holidays with Michael Gove are 'complete nightmare' says wife Sarah Vine
Michael Gove’s wife Sarah Vine has spoken of her relief that he has returned to work after Parliament’s summer recess as having him at home is a “complete nightmare”.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Still think it is amazing to be honest. How they cannot re run the vote considering all what has come out since is laughable. I'm not one for doing that but essentially as they have no plan and not one of them is stepping up to take control, just means that only gove? is standing up and taking the responsibility on.

In fact if he is still running, Gove as failed educational sec and hunt as failed health sec basically both accused of bullying tactics and has no support from their areas of interest. And that is our choice for prime minister?!

Re-run the Referendum vote? Why so?

The Conservative Party leadership election is completely divorced from the Referendum. Yes, the Referendum result resulted in Cameron resigning and triggering a new Conservative leader and new PM, but the internal affairs of one party have no bearing on the vote by the whole country on a completely different issue...