Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Frang]

My point was that you were specifically responding to @Barnfred 55 's very reasonable statement that it's not on to make generalised accusations of racism just based on how they voted in a referendum, with a question asking him how many prominent far right racists are actively supporting remain. We all know the answer to that, practically none (if any). But in relation to Barnfred's statement, your question was completely irrelevant, and seemed a very odd question to ask as a response.

The poster I think your replying too is very much just a troll.

Every single post is made with the intention of stirring the pot.. And he seems to have a free reign to post whatever he likes, no boundaries at all for this particular poster.

 

[Frang]

The main drive for a leave vote was based on racist and xenophobic arguments.

As I recall the main drive was the NHS benefiting..

It just suits your agenda to wrongly label every leave voter as a racist.

 

[roydo]

As I recall the main drive was the NHS benefiting..

It just suits your agenda to wrongly label every leave voter as a racist.

Its just as worrying that your main reason for leaving was "I dont like it".

 

[Jebus_lives]

My point was that you were specifically responding to @Barnfred 55 's very reasonable statement that it's not on to make generalised accusations of racism just based on how they voted in a referendum, with a question asking him how many prominent far right racists are actively supporting remain. We all know the answer to that, practically none (if any). But in relation to Barnfred's statement, your question was completely irrelevant, and seemed a very odd question to ask as a response.

I don't think it's an odd question to ask at all. I think it goes to the heart of why people level the racist claim, and why leave voters construe anyone saying that racists support Brexit is an attack on them.

@Barnfred 55 or anyone else for that matter, is quite free to read my posting history in here to know my views (which are often falsely attributed).

 

[Frang]

Its just as worrying that your main reason for leaving was "I dont like it".

No mush... Even the super power that is Germany is headed for recession..

That's the EU for you

 

[Jebus_lives]

As I recall the main drive was the NHS benefiting..

It just suits your agenda to wrongly label every leave voter as a racist.

Which it won't.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I'm not even close to suggesting that.

I was amazed at the platform given to prominent Islamophobes and racists at the Leave march by organisers. Yet it's greeted as 'growing support' and championed for publicity it gives and 'strengthening the Leave argument'. It should be much more vocally called out otherwise you let these people dominate the narrative. If I found myself at a rally and supporting a position championed by any of that I'll, I'd seriously consider if it was the right thing, at the very least I would be keen that they couldn't control the future direction.

I would also note that this thread has much more disagreement among remain advocates, whereas the Leave contingent champion and applaud anyone who shares their veiw, no matter how bizarre, uniformed or ludicrous a stance it is.

Case in point, go back through the thread and find one leave voter telling @Joey66 he is wrong about the EU banning salt, because he is, everyone but him knows he is, but it's happily ignored as he is seen by the leave contingent as 'one of us'

Its a stance that has just become more and more entrenched:
Leave broke electoral rules, Russian collusion, experts warnings, attacking parliament, attacking the Lord's (then heralding the Lord's), heralding the queen (then attacking her), complete disregard for almost everything that was said prior to the actual referendum which has no morphed into 'everyone wanted no deal', dismissing any warnings as 'project fear'

Despite all of that, for many the position hasn't softened it's hardened to the point that they now would actively rather inflict more misery and hardship on people because of an unwillingness to admit, even in the smallest degree that they may have been wrong.

Here's a couple of posts I found of me disagreeing with Joey. If I couldn't be arsed looking further, I know I'd find more posts disagreeing with Joey and other prominent leave voters in here such as Pete, Edge and Frank.

I don't agree at all Joey. Brexit was never going to be easy. Even if our government had gone about it the right way, we would have come up against stiff opposition from the EU. Not everybody across the E27 are pro EU, in fact there is a lot of opposition to it, so there was no way Brussels was ever going to make it easy for us because there would be a real danger that other's would follow suit. Irrespective of the complexities with the Ireland border, which itself has proven to be a stumbling block that they haven't found a solution to, there was no way that the EU would help facilitate it's own downfall. I also thought Gibraltar would have been another big stumbling block, and I think it is as far as Spain is concerned, but the EU seemed to have put a cap on this.

Added to this is that 68% of constituents voted to leave and 75% of MPs voted to remain, and the fact that the vast majority of the 16m remain voters refused to accept the referendum results. This has resulted in a massive campaign to stay within the EU. Apart from preventing our parliament from being able to make a decision, it's also given Brussels the confidence to stand firm in their hard line negotiating stance.

Having said all that, I do believe that if we had gone about it the right way from the outset, rather than handing the initiative to the EU, that a good deal beneficial to both sides could have been reached. But it would have been hard work Joey, certainly not easy.

I disagree again Joey. Just say we leave with no deal next Friday, what do you think will happen to the £39b divorce settlement?. My guess is that the government will be under immense pressure not to pay it, or at least the vast majority of it. The EU's response will be to not enter into any negotiations until this is paid, and it's possible that they may go even more hardball and say they want the full amount up front before starting negotiations. They will undoubtedly also take legal action to recover it. All this will take years Joey, and in that time our relations with the E27 will fall to a post WWII low. It will be years before we even talk about trade deals. I really believe that, irrespective of tariffs and costs, a lot of ordinary people on both sides will stop buying goods from the other out of principle, they will stop going on holiday etc.

We have a strong economy Joey, 5th biggest in the world, and I think there has been a lot of scare mongering about just how bad a no deal Brexit will be, both logistically and financially. But there will still be a lot of harm done to both the EU and the UK if it happens. Sure we can ride it out in the long run but a lot of people on both sides will suffer financially, and relations between us and the E27 will be put back years as I've already mentioned. This will surely have ramifications for Brits living across the EU and vice versa.

I still want to leave the EU Joey, but not with a no deal.

But no, you are correct. You won't find one of my posts disagreeing with him over Saltgate. It has nothing to do with him being a fellow leave supporter though. It was because I could see that he was getting upset with you and twenty plus other posters ganging up on him, and basically taking the piss out of a fellow Blue. When a debate is as one sided as it was in that instance, and the one on the receiving end is complaining and getting laughed at, there can be a very fine line between piss taking and bullying. It's interesting that you are still making references to him as a victim.

Anyway, feel free to link some of your posts disagreeing with fellow remain voters. Can't find any? Thought not.lol

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Momentum continues a big hitter in the world of radio. I’m going have to listen to Jon Gaunt now,

 

[Jebus_lives]

Here's a couple of posts I found of me disagreeing with Joey. If I couldn't be arsed looking further, I know I'd find more posts disagreeing with Joey and other prominent leave voters in here such as Pete, Edge and Frank.



But no, you are correct. You won't find one of my posts disagreeing with him over Saltgate. It has nothing to do with him being a fellow leave supporter though. It was because I could see that he was getting upset with you and twenty plus other posters ganging up on him, and basically taking the piss out of a fellow Blue. When a debate is as one sided as it was in that instance, and the one on the receiving end is complaining and getting laughed at, there can be a very fine line between piss taking and bullying. It's interesting that you are still making references to him as a victim.

Anyway, feel free to link some of your posts disagreeing with fellow remain voters. Can't find any? Thought not.lol

I'm not sure it's a debate if one person is arguing something which is clearly untrue and refuses to acknowledge the fact.

Is it interesting that I keep making references to him playing the victim when he does it every day?

There are plenty of my posts in disagreement with Remainers about why people voted leave, about who is to blame, about impacts of varying forms of Brexit.

 

[Groucho]

So you confirm that's acceptable in here. But I already knew that from experience. That doesn't mean that I have to put up with it.

What's interesting is that people can seemingly make these blanket slurs with impunity, but if you complain about it you are challenged by the mods.

If you see false accusations of racism then use the report function.

We will then deal with it. I can’t be clearer than that and @roydo has said much the same.

Although I voted remain, someone voting leave does not make them racist. Supporting Tommy Robinson does, and will be dealt with, but voting leave doesn’t.

Do not use this post as a discussion trigger, merely a reference point.

 

[Frang]

If you see false accusations of racism then use the report function.

We will then deal with it. I can’t be clearer than that and @roydo has said much the same.

Although I voted remain, someone voting leave does not make them racist. Supporting Tommy Robinson does, and will be dealt with, but voting leave doesn’t.

Do not use this post as a discussion trigger, merely a reference point.

Thanks for the clarification

 

[Barnfred 55]

Thanks for the clarification

Groucho said don't use it as a discussion trigger. Do you always do the opposite of what you're told/asked.?

 

[JimmyJeffers]

As I recall the main drive was the NHS benefiting..

It just suits your agenda to wrongly label every leave voter as a racist.

I’m not. I’m saying that irrational fears over immigration perpetrated by the press and politicians mixed with a bubbling racist undercurrent that has always existed were the primary drives for brexit.
I’m fully aware that many non racists voted for brexit but to deny that the main crux of the leave campaign was based on xenophobic attitudes and rhetoric is deluded and also entirely wrong.

 

[Frang]

Groucho said don't use it as a discussion trigger. Do you always do the opposite of what you're told/asked.?

I just thanked him.

Get off your high horse

 

[Frang]

I’m not. I’m saying that irrational fears over immigration perpetrated by the press and politicians mixed with a bubbling racist undercurrent that has always existed were the primary drives for brexit.
I’m fully aware that many non racists voted for brexit but to deny that the main crux of the leave campaign was based on xenophobic attitudes and rhetoric is deluded and also entirely wrong.

In your opinion...