Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Khalekan]

100% agree mate. They were always going to play hardball anyway because they of the political situation in some of their other member states. But the fact is, a good trade deal would suit both sides, plus the UK has been a pain in the EU arse for decades. As a Union, many of them believe they are better off with us out of it. But the way we went about it they always had the upper hand in negotiations as you say. We should never have issued articled 50 until we had a proper plan supported by a big majority in parliament.

Indeed.

But again you totally ignore the stumbling block upon which Brexit is flondering,

The British imposed border in Ireland.

But that doesn’t seem to matter to Brexiteers.

And until that is dealt with to the satisfaction of the people affected by it, i.e. the thousands of people living along it, many of whom have it running through their backyards and fields plus the wider population of Ireland both north and south, Brexit will continue to flounder upon it.

If the British continue with the fiction that Northern Ireland must have the same Brexit as Northern England then Brexit will remain a pipedream.

And that Barney, is an issue which May and Barnier had resolved very sensibly in the autumn of 2017

 

[Barnfred 55]

The UK don't have it as an option anymore



They did - and they were in control - not us

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/iata-calls-for-clarity-as-brexit-flight-cap-looms-455052/

Indeed.

But again you totally ignore the stumbling block upon which Brexit is flondering,

The British imposed border in Ireland.

But that doesn’t seem to matter to Brexiteers.

And until that is dealt with to the satisfaction of the people affected by it, i.e. the thousands of people living along it, many of whom have it running through their backyards and fields plus the wider population of Ireland both north and south, Brexit will continue to flounder upon it.

If the British continue with the fiction that Northern Ireland must have the same Brexit as Northern England then Brexit will remain a pipedream.

And that Barney, is an issue which May and Barnier had resolved very sensibly in the autumn of 2017

I agree Khal. As I said I am in favour of the May deal. It's not particularly what I wanted to begin with but we messed up negotiations from the start, so lost that opportunity pretty much from the outset. So I accept that there has to be compromises, from all sides, on their own preferred position. The DUP, like other parties, are playing politics. There has to be a special arrangement in Ireland and, tbh, I thought there would have had to be special arrangements re Gibraltar too.

 

[Barnfred 55]

The UK don't have it as an option anymore

That's exactly why they have us bent over a dustbin lid whilst they tell us what happens next.

 

[Barnfred 55]

They did - and they were in control - not us

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/iata-calls-for-clarity-as-brexit-flight-cap-looms-455052/

Ha ha. The way you put it in your original post they were going to stop British planes flying in EU airspace.

Why are we arguing anyway?. It's not as if it's going to happen.

 

[COYBL25]

yeah but on the plus side that romanian supermarket will have to close..

But what about the pollution from when they all fly home, after deciding that it`s better to live in fear of getting attacked by Count Dracula every night, rather than stay in post Brexit Britain ?

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

That's exactly why they have us bent over a dustbin lid whilst they tell us what happens next.

My point being they always did have us over the bin lid as it was never really a massive issue for them, but they knew it was huge for us.

 

[Barnfred 55]

My point being they always did have us over the bin lid as it was never really a massive issue for them, but they knew it was huge for us.

Let's just hope it doesn't happen hey

Incidentally, you have to hope that a no deal is more important to them than you seem to think. Because from where I'm sitting, May doesn't have a very credible reason for her latest request for an extension.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Let's just hope it doesn't happen hey

Incidentally, you have to hope that a no deal is more important to them than you seem to think. Because from where I'm sitting, May doesn't have a very credible reason for her latest request for an extension.

Agreed - she has opposition from Macron, but Merkel is on-side so we'll just have to wait and see how this one pans out.

If she gets the extension then the MV will be back before parliament and followed by (I hope) a public vote on whether to accept Mays deal or remain in the EU as the only options on the ballot paper.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Khal. I'm probably the only person in here who has supported that deal so maybe I'm not the one you should be addressing that to. And nowhere have I ever said that the EU are the major culprits here. The UK govt closely followed by the rest of parliament hold that trophy.

But you called the EU blameless. That means absolute zero blame. It just isn't true.

I'll give you one example. From the very outset, the EU have insisted that they sort out the divorce settlement first, before even talking about future relationship. Why couldn't they have had two separate negotiation teams working on both matters independently. Then when the divorce agreement is settled, the future relationship agreement could possibly have been rubber stamped. If we had certainty on the future agreement there may have been more MPs in favour of a deal.

I dint want to seem like I'm constantly contradicting you, but on this last point. The financial settlement formed part of Phase 1 of the negotiations along with the Irish Border and EU nationals rights.

Joint report from the negotiators of the European Union and the United Kingdom Government on progress during phase 1 of negotiations under Article 50 TEU on the United Ki

Joint report from the negotiators of the European Union and the United Kingdom Government on progress during phase 1 of negotiations

ec.europa.eu

Also the UK signed up to the Multi Annual Framework in 2014 and committed itself to that until 2020.

The budgetary system of the European Union

Find an overview of the current and past EU budgetary system, plus funding opportunities, latest news, results, and figures from the budget department.

ec.europa.eu

So the UK is both legally and morally (good faith principles) obliged to pay that money. Also Section 3 of the European Communities Act gives the ECJ precedence in the UK, which it won't continue to have in the event of 'no deal' but then another arbiter likely International Court of Justice or the Permanent Court of Arbitration, has to make a decision on what ruling it will give on any money owed, which could amount to much more owed by the UK than any settled agreement.

Now the argument has been by Rees-Mogg and others that the Vienna Convention on Article of Treaties releases you from any obligation of ongoing performance of a treaty once that agreement is cancelled, however the case law is largely against that as it requires 'unforeseen' circumstances.

Also the EU would rely on obligations made by the UK under the EU Aquis Communautaire which are pretty clear and there is a prosess for withdrawal mapped out under Treaty on European Union.

In short, if you commit to a joint multi year finacial and political agreement and you decide you no longer want to operate with them, there has to be a division of assests or financial settlement to that and unless you agree this first, then you cannot enter into discussion about what sort of relationship you want to continue to have in the future.

 

[Joey66]

Have you read 'How It Is' by Samuel Beckett or 'In Search of lost Time' by Proust.

Is it in your school library junior sectionlol

 

[Joey66]

But what about the pollution from when they all fly home, after deciding that it`s better to live in fear of getting attacked by Count Dracula every night, rather than stay in post Brexit Britain ?

There's always Mayflower Curry available and chickpeas lol......

 

[Jebus_lives]

Is it in your school library junior sectionlol

I'll take that as a no.

 

[neil999]

But what about the pollution from when they all fly home, after deciding that it`s better to live in fear of getting attacked by Count Dracula every night, rather than stay in post Brexit Britain ?

no doubt he will be over soon for a free house/coffin.....

 

[Frang]

this thread is a great insight in to what you people are really like..

 

[Joey66]

this thread is a great insight in to what you people are really like..

That's nothing I was on here v the lot of them this am - they don't realise May and Corbyn are selling both sides down the river Frank........