It's not lies it's the worst PM in history since post war .......lies and damn lies from her......
Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
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It wouldn’t matter what the EU did.....that particular constituency are already vindicated in their own minds, Barney and no amount of reasoned argument is going to move them.
I will say it again.....the EU are blameless in this fiasco.
They offered Mrs. May a great deal in November 2017 which she accepted but was then bullied out of it by the Brexit fanatics in her own party and her own reliance on the Ulster Says No party.
They are the ones who played hardball....they are the ones playing chicken with our economy and all our livliehoods.
The EU is probably as “Brexited out” as you are and are finally losing patience with the spoiled brat antics of the Conservative Party, a party which has brought us to this sorry state due to its own infighting dating back decades.
And who is to blame it
No-deal Brexit could force the cancellations of up to 5 million flights
Iata said that airlines 'do not know' what type of Brexit they are planning for
www.independent.co.uk
www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-45019603
That good less pollution, and @Bruce Wayne complaining about me again - this am only two leavers on here rest your usual remainer suspects.........No-deal Brexit could force the cancellations of up to 5 million flights
Iata said that airlines 'do not know' what type of Brexit they are planning for
www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-45019603
I guess we will never know how a no-deal brexit pans out.
My original debate was with @Joey66 and based on the effecive removal of the no deal scenario due to the Yvette Cooper bill achieving royal assent. My point being that we entered into these negotiations with the EU with an alarming degree of arrogance, totally dismissive of the standpoint of the other party (The EU). That was both ignorant and naive. Thinking that we could bully them with the threat of us leaving on WTO terms.
No deal was a big deal for us, but not so much for the EU and therefore they always had the upper hand during negotiations. As for my "apolyptic" visions of a no deal - take a look at the article from @JEBUS_LIVES. The only reason that we would have had european flights in and out of the uk following a no-deal scenario was down to the EU allowing that to happen. They were in control not us.
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Barnfred 55
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Massive statement to make that Khal. Impossible to prove too. I can think of at least half a dozen things they have done or not done that can apportion some blame to them. But I'm not going to go there because I'll just get bombarded in here because the EU is sacrosanct. And I'm getting to the stage where I really can't be arsed arguing any more.
I've always felt that the reason the EU always seemed to have us by the balls was because how divided we were as a country, and how divided Parliament was, and all the shenanigans that has been going on there. If we as country and Parliament had stood as one and just got on with Brexit, then we maybe could have had a more stronger hand against the EU, and they may have been a tad more eager to negotiate rather than playing hardball.
Have you read 'How It Is' by Samuel Beckett or 'In Search of lost Time' by Proust.
Barnfred 55
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I guess we will never know how a no-deal brexit pans out.
Only if the EU allow it to happen.
My original debate was with @Joey66 and based on the effecive removal of the no deal scenario due to the Yvette Cooper bill achieving royal assent. My point being that we entered into these negotiations with the EU with an alarming degree of arrogance, totally dismissive of the standpoint of the other party (The EU). That was both ignorant and naive. Thinking that we could bully them with the threat of us leaving on WTO terms.
Both sides had no deal on the table as worse case scenario. With any negotiation you need that fall back position. What I don't understand is why it's acceptable for the EU to have it but not for the UK. The negotiations with the EU have all been about getting a deal. There is nothing in the future agreement statement that says we want to leave on a no deal.
No deal was a big deal for us, but not so much for the EU and therefore they always had the upper hand during negotiations. As for my "apolyptic" visions of a no deal - take a look at the article from @JEBUS_LIVES. The only reason that we would have had european flights in and out of the uk following a no-deal scenario was down to the EU allowing that to happen. They were in control not us.
Of course they are in control of air traffic over mainland Europe. But that doesn't mean they would ever consider stopping air traffic from entering the UK in the case if a no deal Brexit. It's not like we're at war ffs.
Eh?
A Brexit breakthrough has been reached
Prime Minister and European Commission President announce that 'sufficient progress' has been made to unlock the negotiations
www.independent.co.uk
Theresa May and the EU have announced that a breakthrough deal has finally been reached to move the Brexit talks onto future trade and a transitional period, after days of tortuous negotiations.
The Prime Minister arrived in Brussels before 6am on Friday, to stage a joint press conference with EU leaders – following discussions with the Democratic Unionist Party that stretched long into the night.
Standing alongside Ms May, Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission President, said “sufficient progress” had been made on all three so-called “divorce issues” – the Irish border, a financial settlement and EU citizens’ rights.
I don’t know if this counts as “proof” but it is factual and was the state of play on the night of December 7th 2017.
If that doesn’t suffice then I suggest you do your own research on that particular summit, Barney.
Suffice it for me to say that had that excellent deal gone through, we would have been out the EU at the end of March and neither the Irish Republic nor Nothern Ireland would have to worry about the border becoming an issue again.
So if you are looking fir villains in this pantomime, look not to Brussels.....look to the ERG and their useful idiots in the DUP.
orchard
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Who did you vote for again?
Barnfred 55
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100% agree mate. They were always going to play hardball anyway because they of the political situation in some of their other member states. But the fact is, a good trade deal would suit both sides, plus the UK has been a pain in the EU arse for decades. As a Union, many of them believe they are better off with us out of it. But the way we went about it they always had the upper hand in negotiations as you say. We should never have issued articled 50 until we had a proper plan supported by a big majority in parliament.
The UK don't have it as an option anymore
They did - and they were in control - not us
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/iata-calls-for-clarity-as-brexit-flight-cap-looms-455052/
Barnfred 55
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Khal. I'm probably the only person in here who has supported that deal so maybe I'm not the one you should be addressing that to. And nowhere have I ever said that the EU are the major culprits here. The UK govt closely followed by the rest of parliament hold that trophy.Eh?
A Brexit breakthrough has been reached
Prime Minister and European Commission President announce that 'sufficient progress' has been made to unlock the negotiations
Theresa May and the EU have announced that a breakthrough deal has finally been reached to move the Brexit talks onto future trade and a transitional period, after days of tortuous negotiations.
The Prime Minister arrived in Brussels before 6am on Friday, to stage a joint press conference with EU leaders – following discussions with the Democratic Unionist Party that stretched long into the night.
Standing alongside Ms May, Jean-Claude Juncker, the European Commission President, said “sufficient progress” had been made on all three so-called “divorce issues” – the Irish border, a financial settlement and EU citizens’ rights.
I don’t know if this counts as “proof” but it is factual and was the state of play on the night of December 7th 2017.
If that doesn’t suffice then I suggest you do your own research on that particular summit, Barney.
Suffice it for me to say that had that excellent deal gone through, we would have been out the EU at the end of March and neither the Irish Republic nor Nothern Ireland would have to worry about the border becoming an issue again.
So if you are looking fir villains in this pantomime, look not to Brussels.....look to the ERG and their useful idiots in the DUP.
But you called the EU blameless. That means absolute zero blame. It just isn't true.
I'll give you one example. From the very outset, the EU have insisted that they sort out the divorce settlement first, before even talking about future relationship. Why couldn't they have had two separate negotiation teams working on both matters independently. Then when the divorce agreement is settled, the future relationship agreement could possibly have been rubber stamped. If we had certainty on the future agreement there may have been more MPs in favour of a deal.
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