Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Barnfred 55]

We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. May has at last tried to reach out for a crossparty agreement so that is a start, but at the end of the day if they can come up with something they can agree on and then put it back to the people the main problem goes away quickly. People aren't going to be happy one way or another but if they say these are the terms, leave with x or stay, whatever wins is put into law the next day then people should accept it. None of this best of 3 malarkey.

This way it gets round the whole they didn't know what they voted for argument. Everyone knows what they will be doing so people can't cry about it afterwards. I would be even happy if no deal was put before the people.

Perhaps a twin question referendum at the same time as 3 options would be unfair as it splits the leave votes:

Do you want to leave or remain? If leave wins, with a deal or no deal?

If we get a cross party agreement I'd just go with that. Get EU extension until 22 May to get the paperwork through and leave with whatever deal has been agreed.

If you add in a confirmatory vote, that's just remain in my book. The vote will disengage 90% of leave voters who did not want whatever compromise has been agreed, and most of who will probably just boycott the vote in disgust. You may as well just revoke article 50 as the vote is a foregone conclusion.

You also run the risk of having the EU veto the longer extension that is required to hold the referendum, as it would mean the UK taking part on the EU elections, which would result in an accidental no deal. If we say we can get the referendum organised by 22 May so we don't need to take part in the EU elections, what happens when the people vote to remain in the EU, and we have no EU MPs? Bearing in mind that they have already allocated a third of our seats to other member countries.

The thing I don't get about Parliament at the moment is that they seem to be merrily carrying on with their own plans totally oblivious that where we go from here lies firmly with the EU. As I've said before, the only thing we can do under our own authority is revoke article 50 before 12 April. Anything else is at the EUs behest.

 

[Barnfred 55]

You probably aren't going to believe me on this but I didn't read a single post in this thread before my post and I rarely read this thread because it's hard to keep up with the volume of posts.

I was inspired by a tweet from Piers Morgan. And if it was dangerous for Democracies to change their minds then beer would still be banned in America and May would be prime minister forever. We vote periodically for a reason. I assume you agree with that.

Fair do's mate.

Why wouldn't I believe you?. Serious question by the way, I'm not being flippant.

 

[DanEFC92]

Well there we are, independent as the BBC.

Another thing the malevolent elitist press peddle now is the concept that people knew what they were voting for in the referendum, utter nonsense and frankly a lie, As highlighted in this montage of interviews’ and alike leading up to the vote, from prominent campaigners both leave and remain.

That was his reply.

Weak.

Can't abide that charlatan.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Fair do's mate.

Why wouldn't I believe you?. Serious question by the way, I'm not being flippant.

I don't know it seemed like you were a bit hostile. If that wasn't the intention my apologies.

 

[peteblue]

I'm not sure anything you have said in that post is a sensible option for leaving.

You're advocating for a system that gives greater control to these people...

I’m advocating for a system that gives greater control to a better set of people.....

 

[peteblue]

Who have you dealt with because 'these people' doesn't really offer any insight.

Given numerous 'im alright jack' posts from you in this thread, im.not sure that you are qualified to talk on behalf if the 'average citizen' either.

Perhaps I’m not, but I am qualified to speak on behalf of myself......

 

[roydo]

I’m advocating for a system that gives greater control to a better set of people.....

Like who?

 

[peteblue]

1. That doesn't define Leave to any degree whatsoever. There are numerous possible deals that could see us retaining some of the 'benefits' of the EU and losing others. The government had no 'Leave' position other than it as a possibility and simply advocated for remain. Even the referendum question didn't define leave.

'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?'

I think you can make a perfectly logical conclusion that the referendum was an indication to parliament of a direction, but not the destination and the role of Parliament is to pick the destination. If you disagree with that then it can go back to the people, but all options need to be on the ballot (aside from Remain).

2. I don't think all leave voters are ignorant, but I do think they put overabundance of faith in political figures to honest and credible. That clearly did not happen in the referendum and as such I don't think you can consider the much of the electorate to be rational actors. I don't expect people to be well versed in the nuance and intricacies of Trade Law, Constitutional Law and EU Law, but I do expect it to be fully explained to them objectively. The country was sold a lie, which was championed or went broadly unchallenged by equally inept scrutiny from the media and, voices of experts and impartiality were given equal standing to people that want to profit from greater deregulation and reduced individual freedoms.

So are you arguing that Leave Politicians lied, but Remain politicians told the truth.....really, seriously.....

 

[Alan Whittle]

I’m advocating for a system that gives greater control to a better set of people.....

How are they better?

 

[peteblue]

Like who?

The ones who replace the ones we vote out......

 

[roydo]

The ones who replace the ones we vote out......

Like who?

Its just your unicorns again mate.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I don't know it seemed like you were a bit hostile. If that wasn't the intention my apologies.

No mate, not intentionally anyway. I was probably being a bit defensive though. I saw the word loathsome and thought it was aimed at me. My bad.

Perfectly reasonable description of Morgan though

 

[peteblue]

Like who?

Its just your unicorns again mate.

To replace Ken Clarke, Anna Soubry, Theresa May........

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That was his reply.

Weak.

Can't abide that charlatan.

I'm not sure why he's taken seriously as a commentator on anything tbh.

 

[peteblue]

I watched the HoL this afternoon and the debate about forcing through the No Deal Bill. They have agreed that it will be debated and completed by about 8pm on Monday....with any amendments of course.....