Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Khalekan]

Each of those votes was a motion, rather than legislation.

The current position re legislation is that we leave the EU on March 29th, regardless of whether a deal has been reached or not. The relevant law was passed by the same Parliament that held the three votes you refer to.

May's deal cannot possibly pass. I was stunned to see it lose by only 149 votes, considering it was completely unchanged from it's previous attempt (where it lost by over 200 votes). Pro-remainers will rightly say that it is worse than the terms of our current EU membership, and pro-brexit opinion is that the deal does not see us leave at all, so is not worth supporting.

Presuming it fails, May will approach the EU asking for more time to ram the deal through Parliament. They will agree, in order to prevent the UK leaving on March 29th. May will then have to table new legislation in Parliament to get the date of departure varied, because it is currently determined by statute... and she will have to get that legislation passed BEFORE March 29th. If it does not get passed in time, we will leave on March 29th.

Cheers, Tree.

You have put it into layman’s terms much better than the professional journalists on TV

 

[Jebus_lives]

I can't I'd get banned.......

lollollollol

 

[summerisle]

 

[tim cahill]

The “Led by donkeys” quote has never been more appropriate than right now. Apart from the “Lions” part.

 

[Tree13]

Cheers, Tree.

You have put it into layman’s terms much better than the professional journalists on TV

If I was a cynic, I'd say the professional journalists have been complicit in attempting to make the general population so confused that they just abandon all interest in the process and let the politicians run riot.

EDIT: highly satisfied to see the first "like" for this post has been given by a self-confessed cynic!

 

[Tree13]

What on Earth is a proper Brexit?

Good question. The answer would presumably vary according to the individual politics of the person you ask.

In the context of my post, I would say that people who wish to leave the EU would not regard May's deal as a means of achieving that aim. With the only two other options currently before Parliament being "Leave with no deal" or "Remain", a pro-brexit individual, be they MP or member of the public, would presumably identify "No deal" as the only option that provides a "proper brexit".

"Remain" sees us stay as we are (full members of the EU) and May's deal sees us still bound by the rules and regulations of the EU (via the backstop) but stripped of our current membership rights. That's why May's deal keeps getting hammered - both Leavers and Remainers can see that it is worse than the current position. The sad thing is it appears to have been deliberately designed that way.

 

[GwladysBlue]

Just another average Brexit voter...

 

[Jebus_lives]

Good question. The answer would presumably vary according to the individual politics of the person you ask.

In the context of my post, I would say that people who wish to leave the EU would not regard May's deal as a means of achieving that aim. With the only two other options currently before Parliament being "Leave with no deal" or "Remain", a pro-brexit individual, be they MP or member of the public, would presumably identify "No deal" as the only option that provides a "proper brexit".

"Remain" sees us stay as we are (full members of the EU) and May's deal sees us still bound by the rules and regulations of the EU (via the backstop) but stripped of our current membership rights. That's why May's deal keeps getting hammered - both Leavers and Remainers can see that it is worse than the current position. The sad thing is it appears to have been deliberately designed that way.

Spot on. It favours neither position. Staying in indefinitely but losing membership rights is bonkers.

When you say designed that way, are you just referring to the EU or do you think the UK are complicit in it?

 

[Jebus_lives]

 

[orchard]

Just another average Brexit voter...

Something tells me that his anger issues existed before the vote.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Just another average Brexit voter...

'Perverting the course of democracy' lollollol

 

[peteblue]

Odd isn't it. I've asked all the leavers in this thread for their reasons why, they are either completely silent, ask me to 'read the thread' or offer a deflection.

There is repeatedly chimes of 'you lost', so what's the reticence to give an opinion?

It may come as a surprise to you but you are not the first person to ask for those reasons, merely the latest. Now when, like myself, you have given your own reasons, time and time and time again, and then after two years are still being asked to inform the latest person who wants to know, it gets a bit tiresome. This is why some stay silent and why I say read the thread. Any reasons actually given merely present Remainers with something else to throw at them or argue about and it has become boring.....

 

[Jebus_lives]

It may come as a surprise to you but you are not the first person to ask for those reasons, merely the latest. Now when, like myself, you have given your own reasons, time and time and time again, and then after two years are still being asked to inform the latest person who wants to know, it gets a bit tiresome. This is why some stay silent and why I say read the thread. Any reasons actually given merely present Remainers with something else to throw at them or argue about and it has become boring.....

It might help if you found the quote and just recycled it.

 

[Tree13]

Spot on. It favours neither position. Staying in indefinitely but losing membership rights is bonkers.

When you say designed that way, are you just referring to the EU or do you think the UK are complicit in it?

I think it's fairly safe to say May, Hammond and Robbins are up to their necks in this, along with the rest of the pro-Remain cabinet ministers. We have a Withdrawal Agreement that has been drafted by May and Barnier, both of whom want the UK to stay in the EU. It is a great example of why you don't let foxes provide the security for your hen house.

It's mind-boggling to think that the media are happy to echo the PM's claims that her deal "is the best deal available" when, as you correctly point out, it favours neither Leave nor Remain.

*****TINFOIL HAT ALERT*****
It appears to be a mechanism to sway the electorate into thinking that anything other than continued EU membership is a disaster (which might be true) but the truth of that statement is unknown simply because the people who are supposed to be doing their best to secure a decent deal to facilitate the UK's departure are openly against the very principle of that departure, and have artificially created a "truth" to suit their goals. They haven't tried to negotiate a good deal to facilitate a departure - they've tried (and succeeded) to draft a deal that is SO bad EVERYONE rejects it. This can then be used as "evidence" that brexit is impossible to achieve, and that in turn will be the rationale used by the Government to go on an all-out pro-leave offensive ahead of the second referendum.
*****TINFOIL HAT REMOVED*****

To use an analogy, it's the same as a major housebuilder pointing to his previous two years of sales and claiming they provide evidence that "No-one wants to buy a house with a garden anymore. We sold LOADS more houses without gardens over the last two years."... but failing to mention that in the same two-year period he simply didn't build any houses with gardens.

 

[Aberblue]

Btw, does anyone know what happened to Farage's "march" (dubbed "the Gammonball run")? Did it take place? How many took part?