Current Affairs EU In or Out

[orchard]

Also I'm not claiming to, my question was an attempt at understanding.

It was his arrogance that piqued my interest mate, the truth value of his premises doesn't matter

 

[Jebus_lives]

Having responded as above to another poster earlier I think it's only fair to say the same to you.

I'm not saying this necessarily applies to you personally, but as soon as I start listing reasons for leaving in here I will be bombarded with posts educating me to the errors of my ways. Guaranteed. It's happened recently when offering my view on control of borders and negotiating trade deals and I've ended up in "discussions" with half a dozen or more all determined to prove me wrong. It all gets very tiresome in the end.

From memory, it seemed that you voted the way you did to keep your wife happy. I couldn't remember anymore than that, but I'll go back through the thread.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Having responded as above to another poster earlier I think it's only fair to say the same to you.

I'm not saying this necessarily applies to you personally, but as soon as I start listing reasons for leaving in here I will be bombarded with posts educating me to the errors of my ways. Guaranteed. It's happened recently when offering my view on control of borders and negotiating trade deals and I've ended up in "discussions" with half a dozen or more all determined to prove me wrong. It all gets very tiresome in the end.

Out of interest, is there anything that would change your mind are you pretty fixed? If the former, what would it take?

 

[Barnfred 55]

I believe the gist is that it's not possible for you to know the collective 'will of the people' any more than he, just because you happen to be part of the leave voting camp.

That's fair comment. I can only talk for those I know and have spoken to about it. And from what my wife and I have seen on social media. But I think it's fair to say that this should be broadly representative of the country as a whole.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Don't be angry, i'm quite happy to oblige

Well don't make such a sarcastic comment then. I honestly didn't know what point you were making but I did catch the sarcasm. Show some respect and courtesy and I'll reciprocate.

 

[Barnfred 55]

From memory, it seemed that you voted the way you did to keep your wife happy. I couldn't remember anymore than that, but I'll go back through the thread.

That was meant as a joke as well you know. I thought you were better than this.

 

[Aberblue]

"Theresa May will make a third attempt to get her EU withdrawal deal through Parliament in the next week. "

So it's ok to have multiple votes on this deal, but not on the decision itself?

 

[sbbefc]

Im already tired of brexit but im completely exhausted with her bloody crap deal. I can't believe shes going to try and hold the country to ransom on this.

 

[Jebus_lives]

That was meant as a joke as well you know. I thought you were better than this.

I voted leave but it was a difficult choice for me. I could see benefits and negatives in both options, and I can hand on heart say that when I entered the polling station and opened the paper, I still hadn't made my mind up which way to vote.

As it happened my wife was strongly in favour of leave, so I felt it would be best for the good of my marriage if I voted the same way.

It was that post above that I was referring to. I said I was going to look for other reasons through the rest of the thread. I want trying to be an arse about it.

 

[arminisgod]

"Theresa May will make a third attempt to get her EU withdrawal deal through Parliament in the next week. "

So it's ok to have multiple votes on this deal, but not on the decision itself?

If her deal doesn't have any significant changes or the don't feel it can get through... Then the speaker can chuck it out before hand.

She has no chance of getting it through. She is desperate now

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

"Theresa May will make a third attempt to get her EU withdrawal deal through Parliament in the next week. "

So it's ok to have multiple votes on this deal, but not on the decision itself?

It’s an absolute farce and a fraud, perpetrated in the country by people with less intellectual honesty than a cucumber

 

[orchard]

Well don't make such a sarcastic comment then. I honestly didn't know what point you were making but I did catch the sarcasm. Show some respect and courtesy and I'll reciprocate.

Don't trouble yourself mate, and maybe think about posts rather than how you can be offended/deflect.

The point remains (as stated severally in the House yesterday), that a legion of individuals are claiming to represent the will of the people without even investigating what that may be, and with different interpretations.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I included you all as I feel you represent three very different spectrums of leave, not because I presume to know why you voted leave. In fact, I asked you earlier in the thread why you did vote Leave, to which you haven't, as I type this, replied.

On the second point within your reply, it doesn't really matter if you do or not, we don't have direct democracy, it's a parliamentary democracy in the UK. Members represent their constitutes (they aren't a delegate). So I'm slightly confused, constitutionally, given the leave sides (as a broad stroke) championing of sovereignty and democracy, what they actually mean by it?

Because so far what seems to be the case is that leave want democracy, but not parliamentary democracy. They (I mean this as a veiw from within) want the will of the people, but not a second referendum. They want the EU to leave the UK to manage it's own laws, but now are hoping the EU politicians and foreign electorate will frustrate the will of UK parliament (ergo our democracy). They want a sovereign country, while failing to recognise that if you are positioned to make laws within your own country whilst also having a role in shaping laws which govern an entire political and economic Union, you have actually increased your autonomy - although I accept you balance this against your own de jure sovereignty.

Now you might say, the British people want to leave, to which I would say that's not the 'will of the people' fully as only a third voted for Leave and it completely disregards the will of the rest of the country. You might say, parliament isn't representing my interests or the interests of leave - well then why not push for another GE? Tip the balance of parliamentary democracy in favour of leave.

Help me out here, because I'm genuinely struggling to understand what Leave voters now actually want.

OK. Here is your original post.

Imagine a (7 time) unelected MP (who once got less votes than a man dressed as a dolphin) going to the EU and asking a room of foreign politicians to frustrate the will of British parliament. How does that square with your sovereignty @peteblue @Joey66 @Barnfred 55 @Old Blue 2

Initially I read that as a challenge to all the regular Brexit posters in here. It was quite provocative and poking fun at a prominent leave supporter. That's why I reacted how I did. I've read it since and it still comes across the same way. What do you think @peteblue, @Joey66, @Old Blue 2. Did I overreact?

Anyway, I'm off out soon but will endeavour to reply to the above later. Or I may have lost the will to live by then.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Don't trouble yourself mate, and maybe think about posts rather than how you can be offended/deflect.

The point remains (as stated severally in the House yesterday), that a legion of individuals are claiming to represent the will of the people without even investigating what that may be, and with different interpretations.

So it's ok for you to be sarcastic but not for me to be offended by it. That's just typical of what I expect in here. And you have the cheek to speak of arrogance.lol

 

[Barnfred 55]

Out of interest, is there anything that would change your mind are you pretty fixed? If the former, what would it take?

I'm off out Bruce but will get back to you later on this.