Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

Quite probably. I've never been one advocating for the holiness of the 'will of the people' as though it's some paragon of wisdom.



Probably because it's designed to be something for you to take pot shots at rather than say why leaving it would be a wonderful thing. As you know, I value free movement enormously, and that has significantly supported culture, science, tourism and trade across Europe. The conversion of standards and regulation has made trade straightforward, thus boosting the economy of the continent significantly. These standards have been especially useful in areas such as energy, medicines, travel and IT. Cooperation across the continent is vital for tackling a wide range of issues that simply can't be tackled in isolation, from international crime to climate change. Projects such as Horizon2020 and Erasmus have been enormously beneficial, as have projects like the European Institute for Innovation & Technology and the European Investment Bank. Being able to gain access to basic social protections such as pensions and healthcare anywhere on the continent are tremendous advantages for Europeans, as are seemingly simple things like the removal of data roaming.

I'm sure there are probably actual studies into this far from exhaustive list, but leave voters don't give a crap about studies so my anecdotal, back of an envelope list will no doubt be held in the highest regard.

I agree with the free movement of people who add value to a country. I agree with cooperation in the fields of science , law and order, defence, manufacturing etc. But this shouldn’t go away, we do these things with the USA and others. If the EU wish to throw their toys out of the pram because we wish a more independent future, then that is a failure of theirs not ours. Eventually countries of Europe will see the benefits of what we are doing and demand powers are returned from the Selmayr’s and other non elected EU officials. It will be for the benefit of all if we all just behave like grown ups....

 

[peteblue]

Good chance of article 50 being extended and of course better still a Labour government! So all to play for.

What is the point of extending article 50.....if the EU will not change the backstop between now and March then another few months will add nothing. Keep to the date, focus the minds and get it done....

 

[peteblue]

Indeed. These are generally among the most mobile people in the world, and their talents are in demand by pretty much every major economy. Most sensible ones are rolling out the red carpet and making it as easy as possible, and you would think a Tory government would accept the economic argument for a mobile workforce, but they've been over-run by swivel eyed loons who are scared of foreigners.

@peteblue, you mentioned previously that the partners of your children haven't experienced much discrimination, which is nice, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. As a nurse, my wife is in contact with the whole strata of society, and there have been the full gambit from going home comments to general anti-immigrant rhetoric (oh but not you dear, the others...), plus of course reading the news where the government openly want to create a hostile environment (and I hope you yourself remember your hostility when Sadiq Khan used the fireworks to remind Europeans living in London that they're welcome and cherished!). We're visiting the in-laws this week and yesterday she gave a talk at the local nursing college on what the NHS is like, and suffice to say she didn't mention anything about such a hostile environment. Maybe loyalty only goes one way huh?

Maybe it’s a case of where you live, I don’t know. Here, we just tend to get on with life and accept people, which is quite strange as we are for Brexit (supposedly racist) and where you live they want to Remain (supposedly enlightened and all seeing), go figure. My hostility to Sadie Khan is that he is a jumped up nonentity who plays gesture politics and was trying to undermine the UK’s negotiating position, he knew what he was doing with images being transmitted all around the world. Loyalty ?, only to himself.

I am truly sorry that your wife has been getting a hard ride, Iris a disgrace and shouldn’t happen, but it doesn’t happen everywhere. Perhaps you should consider relocating to one of the Shires and away from London, your quality of life will improve vastly......I don’t mean this in a flippant way, life truly is better away from our Capital, but each to their own.....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I agree with the free movement of people who add value to a country. I agree with cooperation in the fields of science , law and order, defence, manufacturing etc. But this shouldn’t go away, we do these things with the USA and others. If the EU wish to throw their toys out of the pram because we wish a more independent future, then that is a failure of theirs not ours. Eventually countries of Europe will see the benefits of what we are doing and demand powers are returned from the Selmayr’s and other non elected EU officials. It will be for the benefit of all if we all just behave like grown ups....

A survey from the WEF only last week warned that international cooperation was dwindling in the face of things like Trump and Brexit. What is happening is damaging attempts to work together rather than support them.

 

[thirdmantackle]

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Maybe it’s a case of where you live, I don’t know. Here, we just tend to get on with life and accept people, which is quite strange as we are for Brexit (supposedly racist) and where you live they want to Remain (supposedly enlightened and all seeing), go figure. My hostility to Sadie Khan is that he is a jumped up nonentity who plays gesture politics and was trying to undermine the UK’s negotiating position, he knew what he was doing with images being transmitted all around the world. Loyalty ?, only to himself.

I am truly sorry that your wife has been getting a hard ride, Iris a disgrace and shouldn’t happen, but it doesn’t happen everywhere. Perhaps you should consider relocating to one of the Shires and away from London, your quality of life will improve vastly......I don’t mean this in a flippant way, life truly is better away from our Capital, but each to their own.....

To be honest, she's worked in Leicestershire for a bit and had her share of racism there too. It's not all by any stretch, either here or there, and the vast majority of people are pretty sound. I'd say the biggest hostility sadly comes from the state rather than citizens.

 

[tim cahill]

Deluded is the correct word. How are these people in charge of our country when they can’t understand that the backstop is an essential part of the deal from the EU’s point of view?

 

[Tubey]

Deluded is the correct word. How are these people in charge of our country when they can’t understand that the backstop is an essential part of the deal from the EU’s point of view?

A backstop is - the backstop currently in existence isn't necessarily the only one.

That's why last night was a disaster, as it opens doors to reframe the backstop as something else and pass it through in a different name. The MPs are losing their bottle, and I actually think the EU will bend a bit on this as long as something remains in place to avoid the hard border.

 

[peteblue]

A backstop is - the backstop currently in existence isn't necessarily the only one.

That's why last night was a disaster, as it opens doors to reframe the backstop as something else and pass it through in a different name. The MPs are losing their bottle, and I actually think the EU will bend a bit on this as long as something remains in place to avoid the hard border.

Indeed. Everyone has to save face, May has to come back with something, the Eu has to be seen not changing anything, but one way or another the existing ‘backstop’ will be amended.....

 

[peteblue]

To be honest, she's worked in Leicestershire for a bit and had her share of racism there too. It's not all by any stretch, either here or there, and the vast majority of people are pretty sound. I'd say the biggest hostility sadly comes from the state rather than citizens.

Genuinely sorry to hear that.....

 

[Tubey]

Dominic Raab, who was Brexit secretary from July until November last year, is being grilled about the backstop by a committee of MPs in parliament.

He has been claiming Ireland are in a "very difficult position" and taking a friendly tone in a bid to win them over.

"Politically, one of the aspects of all this will be finding a ladder which the Irish government can climb down," he says.

"They took such a trenchant line on the backstop, and such a very political line.

"I think we do need to understand that we probably need to work together with our Irish friends to work out a mechanism that not only deals with the practical operational issues but also what is politically acceptable to them because I think they are in a very difficult position now."

The arrogance here is staggering.

 

[hallamblue]

After last night I think it's clear that:

A)There won't be a 2nd referendum
B)There won't be a no deal Brexit.

They will end up fiddling around at the edges, and basically the Tories and DUP will vote Plan A through, which will mean we will end up with exactly what we already had, minus any voting rights or say in the future of Europe. But it's the best deal we could have got, that upholds the vote. Utterly ridiculous, but that's the British for you. Once Cameron had thrown us all of the cliff, the best we could hope for was a broken leg, and that's what May has negotiated.

 

[Harryflashman]

After last night I think it's clear that:

A)There won't be a 2nd referendum
B)There won't be a no deal Brexit.

They will end up fiddling around at the edges, and basically the Tories and DUP will vote Plan A through, which will mean we will end up with exactly what we already had, minus any voting rights or say in the future of Europe. But it's the best deal we could have got, that upholds the vote. Utterly ridiculous, but that's the British for you. Once Cameron had thrown us all of the cliff, the best we could hope for was a broken leg, and that's what May has negotiated.

Ultimately what worried me was a no deal Brexit so like you despite it being a pretty rubbish deal I’ll take it but how anybody can look at it and say “yeah this is great , I’m glad we voted leave . This is what we wanted “ astounds me . Again like you I accept there isn’t a good way out of it but if it happens it seems surreal that people can try and paint any of this as a good resolution.

 

[Sharpattack]

Indeed. Everyone has to save face, May has to come back with something, the Eu has to be seen not changing anything, but one way or another the existing ‘backstop’ will be amended.....

That's great! As the backstop that was agreed by May, then rejected by May was her suggestion, maybe you can give us an insight into this new one that we can all agree on. Considering the original backstop was accepted by the full Cabinet, including the then Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, and the chief Brexit negotiator David Davis, and signed off by the then chief Brexit negotiator Dominic Raab, these people seem unable to come up with an alternative except some vague reference to "technological solutions" none of which currently exist. You seem to think there is an alternative, care to share it with us?

 

[Harryflashman]

That's great! As the backstop that was agreed by May, then rejected by May was her suggestion, maybe you can give us an insight into this new one that we can all agree on. Considering the original backstop was accepted by the full Cabinet, including the then Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, and the chief Brexit negotiator David Davis, and signed off by the then chief Brexit negotiator Dominic Raab, these people seem unable to come up with an alternative except some vague reference to "technological solutions" none of which currently exist. You seem to think there is an alternative, care to share it with us?

It’s the tactic we used to replace lukaku , we had a player to replace him who was perfect it’s just we weren’t willing to specify who that player was so as result couldn’t sign him . Look how well that worked out .