Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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They can get out among their consitiuants and find out. If they were doing their job and actually making contact once in a while with the peasants they supposedly represent it wouldn't be that difficult to find a general consensus or at least get a much better feel then they do right now. I don't except them to be in the nose about everything but frankly it's appalling how out of touch most MP's are from the people they supposedly represent.
They can get out among their consitiuants and find out. If they were doing their job and actually making contact once in a while with the peasants they supposedly represent it wouldn't be that difficult to find a general consensus or at least get a much better feel then they do right now. I don't except them to be in the nose about everything but frankly it's appalling how out of touch most MP's are from the people they supposedly represent.
The problem is that Brexit is quite a complex issue with varying degrees of thoughts - I’d imagine it would be hard to canvas opinion of a constituency of 100,000 people as to whether they back a people’s vote, a no deal, May’s deal, a softer Brexit, a harder Brexit, etc.

I think at some stage, this being one, MP’s have got to do the job they are paid to and vote/campaign according to what they think would be best for the country.
 
The problem is that Brexit is quite a complex issue with varying degrees of thoughts - I’d imagine it would be hard to canvas opinion of a constituency of 100,000 people as to whether they back a people’s vote, a no deal, May’s deal, a softer Brexit, a harder Brexit, etc.

I think at some stage, this being one, MP’s have got to do the job they are paid to and vote/campaign according to what they think would be best for the country.
At this stage, sure it would be impossible to get a true consensus but they've had over two years to get there. I dont think it's unreasonable to ask MP's to have a far better grap on what their constituents think after all that time. If they made regular contact with their consitiuants it wouldn't be such a big ask.

And who decides and at what stage that MP's are no longer obliged to represent the wishes of their constituents? We need set guidelines and parameters if that's the case that make it clear when, why and what scenarios MP's are allowed to go againt the people they are paid to represent. Otherwise it's just open to abuse and they'll listen even less then they already do.
 
To pre-empt Joe and his accusations of project fear and how they were wrong about the Euro etc. I would like to ask him, if projections such as this are so fanciful, why is it that thus far they all seem to be one way? Where are the fanciful projections around how Brexit will make life better?

All I've seen to date are people from various walks of life saying this will be crap, with the standard retort then being to either dismiss that as idle speculation, or to downplay the fears as "it won't be that bad, we survived the blitz...". Leavers complain that remain voters aren't getting behind the country, but what exactly is it we're supposed to get behind? Where is there anything at all that even wildly suggests that Brexit will make things better than now rather than various states of worse?
Most sensible people know your country will be worse off after leaving
 
At this stage, sure it would be impossible to get a true consensus but they've had over two years to get there. I dont think it's unreasonable to ask MP's to have a far better grap on what their constituents think after all that time. If they made regular contact with their consitiuants it wouldn't be such a big ask.

And who decides and at what stage that MP's are no longer obliged to represent the wishes of their constituents? We need set guidelines and parameters if that's the case that make it clear when, why and what scenarios MP's are allowed to go againt the people they are paid to represent. Otherwise it's just open to abuse and they'll listen even less then they already do.
They’ve not had two years because the consensus is changing constantly. You could argue that since May cancelled the vote and the vote of no confidence, many people have changed their opinions of what they want to happen.
 
Yea, but the amount of Con MP's in the house over the last couple of weeks saying stuff like 'I met frank, a prominent [insert target] in my constituency yesterday and he wanted to [insert particular government policy desperate for support here]' is legion.
It signifies the government are well aware of the issue, but without any formal accountability, is prone to abuse.
Its no more open to abuse then the system as it currently is were MP's can ignore their consitiuants. I 100% agree that more accountability is needed or the system will always be as unworkable and crooked as it currently is.
 
They’ve not had two years because the consensus is changing constantly. You could argue that since May cancelled the vote and the vote of no confidence, many people have changed their opinions of what they want to happen.
It's changing constantly because our MP's have run around like headless chickens for two years and let that clown May and the Tories cock everything up as badly as possible rather then finding out how their consitiuants felt as early on as possible then representing those wishes and fighting for them.
 
It's changing constantly because our MP's have run around like headless chickens for two years and let that clown May and the Tories cock everything up as badly as possible rather then finding out how their consitiuants felt as early on as possible then representing those wishes and fighting for them.
What do you want them to do? It’s changing constantly because the leadership is an absolute shambles. There are plenty of very, very good MPs in the house who have no meaningful say on what happens with this unless it comes down to a vote.
 
Its no more open to abuse then the system as it currently is were MP's can ignore their consitiuants. I 100% agree that more accountability is needed or the system will always be as unworkable and crooked as it currently is.
Why shouldn’t MP’s be allowed to ignore their constituents? The system they are voted into allows them to make decisions on their behalf. It also allows constituents to vote somebody else in if they feel they are not being represented properly. MP’s generally are representative in the respect that if a constituency votes Tory, you get a Tory MP who votes with Tories in the house and the same with Labour and others. Brexit is different, though, and if I represented a small depleted northern town which voted leave in the referendum, but my belief was that their lives would be affected by leaving the EU, then I wouldn’t be voting with leave in parliament.
 
They can get out among their consitiuants and find out. If they were doing their job and actually making contact once in a while with the peasants they supposedly represent it wouldn't be that difficult to find a general consensus or at least get a much better feel then they do right now. I don't except them to be in the nose about everything but frankly it's appalling how out of touch most MP's are from the people they supposedly represent.

It's a two way street though. How many constituents actually make the effort to write to or contact their MP in a reasonable and balanced manner? How many check when and where their surgery takes place and visit? Or should MP's come and knock on the constituents door on the off-chance that they have something to put forward?

Plenty instead prefer angrily moaning or making personal attacks on public figures in comments sections. Actually making a modicum of effort to put across their views or questions in a balanced and reasonable manner through the proper channels simply doesn't appeal. They prefer to play the martyr role of the unheard voice of reason and indulge in comments section attacks rather than engage in any meaningful dialogue for fear that it may challenge their views and require the ability to listen to and think about opposing ideas.

I've had reason to write to my MP on certain concerns regarding a vulnerable family member going through the machinations of the welfare sytem and was surprised at how diligent she was in the response and further actions she took both getting involved with people at local levels of welfare bureaucracy and within Westminster - which sounds a little grandiose but I mean in the way that meetings were subsequently scheduled by her so as to pass similar cases to people quite high up in various departments so as to lend weight to how problematic things were and still remain.
 
Why shouldn’t MP’s be allowed to ignore their constituents? The system they are voted into allows them to make decisions on their behalf. It also allows constituents to vote somebody else in if they feel they are not being represented properly. MP’s generally are representative in the respect that if a constituency votes Tory, you get a Tory MP who votes with Tories in the house and the same with Labour and others. Brexit is different, though, and if I represented a small depleted northern town which voted leave in the referendum, but my belief was that their lives would be affected by leaving the EU, then I wouldn’t be voting with leave in parliament.

I live in a very Brexity depleted northern town (WOOL represent!) and am delighted that our elected MP's continue to ignore the many unenlightened mutants, racists, S*n / DM readers and Tommy Robinson fans that I share a postcode with.
 
To pre-empt Joe and his accusations of project fear and how they were wrong about the Euro etc. I would like to ask him, if projections such as this are so fanciful, why is it that thus far they all seem to be one way? Where are the fanciful projections around how Brexit will make life better?

All I've seen to date are people from various walks of life saying this will be crap, with the standard retort then being to either dismiss that as idle speculation, or to downplay the fears as "it won't be that bad, we survived the blitz...". Leavers complain that remain voters aren't getting behind the country, but what exactly is it we're supposed to get behind? Where is there anything at all that even wildly suggests that Brexit will make things better than now rather than various states of worse?
The hard Brexiteers have started to change their tune now, though. They've moved on from "everything will be fantastic" to "there may be some short term difficulties, but in the longer term we will be sound". I get the impression they are now lining up the "stabbed in the back" excuse. It will end up being the fault of civil servants, Remainers etc. if/when it goes belly up. I thought the EU leaders were correct when they turned down May's request for a more conciliatory/legally binding wording on the Irish back-stop, saying the Brexiteers would just pocket it and move on to complain about something else. I still don't think May understands that the likes of Rees-Mogg and DUP will not compromise. To them a no deal is a good outcome. No amount of evidence (even after the fact of our leaving) would make them want anything different. The only option for her , I think, is to do a deal with Labour MP's who wish to remain, possibly with them having to go against the Labour whip to do so but by offering them a referendum in return on Remain/May's deal.
 
And who decides and at what stage that MP's are no longer obliged to represent the wishes of their constituents?

MP's are not a mouthpiece for localised referendums or consensus. They stand on a platform based on their own ideas and/or their parties policies. They are supposed to work towards the benefit of their constituents rather than blindly follow flavour of the month trends and opinions amongst them.

It is the decision of the constituents to decide which person is the best person to represent them in Parliament. If you believe that the MP is making the wrong votes then vote for a different one with more similar stances to you or stand yourself.
 
What do you want them to do? It’s changing constantly because the leadership is an absolute shambles. There are plenty of very, very good MPs in the house who have no meaningful say on what happens with this unless it comes down to a vote.

With respect, I am not sure what you are basing that on. The quality of MPs comes down, in the end, to the quality of decisions they make - not their media appearances, their assistance for constituents (and others) in trouble or whether they are loyal to leaders / their party / their ideals.

The quality of decisions made in the Commons has been terrible for years - to the point that the Lords, packed as it is with time-servers and lackeys, makes better decisions than the elected chamber does. Brexit and the calamity of the negotiations is a symptom of this, but it is not the cause.
 
With respect, I am not sure what you are basing that on. The quality of MPs comes down, in the end, to the quality of decisions they make - not their media appearances, their assistance for constituents (and others) in trouble or whether they are loyal to leaders / their party / their ideals.

The quality of decisions made in the Commons has been terrible for years - to the point that the Lords, packed as it is with time-servers and lackeys, makes better decisions than the elected chamber does. Brexit and the calamity of the negotiations is a symptom of this, but it is not the cause.
I agree with you that the commons makes many poor decisions and that the Lords generally, in my view as well, make better decisions, but that’s politics. In terms of MPs serving their constituencies I do actually believe that there are loads of good and effective members. You’ve also got a group of careerists who couldn’t care less, and they’re the ones who mainly get media coverage and put an outwardly image of MPs being awful.
 
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