Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
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I don't really feel like @Joey66 has left the thread in all honesty
Carl O'Ancelotti
Player Valuation: £20m
Jexit means Jexit.
random
Player Valuation: £15m
It's a simple question
we are over 2000 pages in mate
They wanted to change the political landscape because they believed people like farage telling them that we’d be better off out and these pesky foreigners are stealing everything from us.
It’s the same with trump, they spoke in a way that the general public hasn’t heard before and it appealed to a lot of people who never thought their vote counted and felt left behind.
The problem in Britain is that they voted on something they didn’t understand fully (I.e the complexities of what the EU is)
Mr. White
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They have 'thought' about it and it's because leave voters are all old, racist, bigoted and stupid. 17.5m voters across the UK have been shoehorned into this profile.
Jamiednm
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EFTA/EEA is the answer. THE pragmatic, most realistic and most sensible alternative to EU membership,
Massively misunderstood;
- EFTA/EEA nations have participation in conceiving and debating new laws and rules before they even reach the European Parliament. They are part of the law making process and don’t have to enact laws they disagree with. Not law-takers as they’re wrongly depicted as being.
- Are party to freedom of movement, but can opt out unilatelly if there is a genuine national requirement. This is unilateral and doesn’t need EU permission.
- EFTA/EEA states pay less in subs. Compulsory payments are for Single Market admin and the development of poorer countries. Everything else is optional, i.e. - science, space, medicine, Erasmus etc.
- EFTA/EEA doesn’t include a Customs Union, meaning EFTA states can conduct independent trade policies.
- EFTA as an organisation have more FTA’s worldwide than the EU. Member states can opt-in or opt-out of these agreements. The UK joining EFTA would create a trade bloc of 80 million people, making it a much more powerful trading bloc.
- UK in EFTA would demonstrate a realistic and reasonable option for other EU states who either wish to exit in the future, or are disregarded by core EU states as they inevitably federalise in the coming years.
The current draw back is the Northern Ireland border issue. It would mean NI, in addition to EFTA/EEA membership would have to be in a Customs Union. This could be UK-wide or NI-only, but it would be a reality until if and when a technological alternative to a hard border is developed.
I hope May’s awful deal is voted down, and that rejoining EFTA and retaining EEA in the EFTA pillar is then embraced by Parliament. There are already leading Conservatives and Labour MPs behind this option.
If it needs to go to a second referendum, then so be it. Remain being on the ballot is tricky because it has already been rejected by the electorate, but there is clearly a huge amount of support for it and it is a realistic option, no matter how much I disagree with it.
What I want to happen, and what I think is realistic:
Massively misunderstood;
- EFTA/EEA nations have participation in conceiving and debating new laws and rules before they even reach the European Parliament. They are part of the law making process and don’t have to enact laws they disagree with. Not law-takers as they’re wrongly depicted as being.
- Are party to freedom of movement, but can opt out unilatelly if there is a genuine national requirement. This is unilateral and doesn’t need EU permission.
- EFTA/EEA states pay less in subs. Compulsory payments are for Single Market admin and the development of poorer countries. Everything else is optional, i.e. - science, space, medicine, Erasmus etc.
- EFTA/EEA doesn’t include a Customs Union, meaning EFTA states can conduct independent trade policies.
- EFTA as an organisation have more FTA’s worldwide than the EU. Member states can opt-in or opt-out of these agreements. The UK joining EFTA would create a trade bloc of 80 million people, making it a much more powerful trading bloc.
- UK in EFTA would demonstrate a realistic and reasonable option for other EU states who either wish to exit in the future, or are disregarded by core EU states as they inevitably federalise in the coming years.
The current draw back is the Northern Ireland border issue. It would mean NI, in addition to EFTA/EEA membership would have to be in a Customs Union. This could be UK-wide or NI-only, but it would be a reality until if and when a technological alternative to a hard border is developed.
I hope May’s awful deal is voted down, and that rejoining EFTA and retaining EEA in the EFTA pillar is then embraced by Parliament. There are already leading Conservatives and Labour MPs behind this option.
If it needs to go to a second referendum, then so be it. Remain being on the ballot is tricky because it has already been rejected by the electorate, but there is clearly a huge amount of support for it and it is a realistic option, no matter how much I disagree with it.
What I want to happen, and what I think is realistic:
- Reject May’s dreadful deal
- Cross party/moderate Brexiteer campaign for EFTA/EEA (which already has EU support), while Parliament completely rejects the ridiculous notion of NoDeal altogether.
- Put both options to the public (EU - continue with political integration, EFTA - withdraw from political integration.
- (Hope for at least a reasonably decisive result either way) Implement the result.
It's better than May's deal, but still not really better than what we already have. I feel at times it's kinda important to remember that this is supposed to be benefiting the country not selecting the least damaging option.
Jamiednm
Player Valuation: £40m
On the contrary, I think EFTA/EEA is a more beneficial option than EU membership. Financially, socially and politically - in the long term.
There is a fundamental issue at the heart of EU membership, and that is ‘ever greater union’. It is the ultimate aim of the EU, a federal state. Sure, if you’re an EU federalist that is fully behind the UK just being a region in the United States of Europe, with government further from then individual, the that’s fine, I totally respect your opinion and right to support that.
UK opt-outs will only last so long. Continued membership will undoubtedly result in adaption of the Euro and other federalist measures.
In my opinion (I could be wrong, but this is my opinion based on 2 decades of reading, research and observation of the EU), France and Germany will combine in to a federal state along with Belgium, Netherlands and Austria. The PIIGS (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain) will either become satellite states, or will be unceremoniously disregarded. The Visegrad states in Eastern Europe will diverge from the EU and form their own bloc, and Denmark and Sweden will return to their old memberships of EFTA.
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peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
It’s also kind of important to remember that those who voted Leave did not do so to be immediately better off. They voted Leave to be out of the EU. All this doomsday scenario talk, which was wrong previously, is now being regurgitated to be really scary this time. Talk of 10% GDP reduction, wow, actually if we remove our GDP growth over the last few years it barely takes us back 4 or 5 years. So even the worst case, most destructive envisaged scenario just takes us back to 2014......big deal......
Seems a bit of a leap Pete to suggest that people voted to leave so that they would be worse off. That might be something that's being retrofitted to the current situation, but surely people who weren't thriving in life at the moment weren't voting for something that would make their life harder?
Looking back over this thread, you yourself have said numerous times that this will make our country better off, and suggested many times that the fall in the value of the pound would rejuvenate our exports and so on.
pete those figures doing the rounds are based on models of situations that could arises, we might lose ex amount of billions if a b c and z all managed to line up nothing but a punt , its all part of the game to eventually get the vote overturned or as good as in real terms.
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