Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
Status
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wouldn't put it past her to get it through pete, she always somehow manages to stumble through somehow.

I thought she had no chance but like you said who knows now , she’s ridden though another storm and labour simply haven’t grasped the nettle in my opinion. The public wanted Brexit the referendum showed that but now I honestly thing a huge proportion just want this over , the division and the arguing .

The impression I get is people are as close as it gets to having had enough . The British public as a whole aren’t represented by what joe , pete , Bruce or me and what any of us want. The impression I get is people want a line drawn under the mess we’re in . I could be wrong like .
 
No deal Brexit it is then, let's really put these Europeans to the test.

Macron can do one as well, fish your own waters, stay out of ours.

It should do, but I hope to god it gets voted down in the commons.
 
I thought she had no chance but like you said who knows now , she’s ridden though another storm and labour simply haven’t grasped the nettle in my opinion. The public wanted Brexit the referendum showed that but now I honestly thing a huge proportion just want this over , the division and the arguing .

The impression I get is people are as close as it gets to having had enough . The British public as a whole aren’t represented by what joe , pete , Bruce or me and what any of us want. The impression I get is people want a line drawn under the mess we’re in . I could be wrong like .
to be honest if i were a remainer mp i would be all over that deal, by the time we get right into trade deals it will be as near as being in the EU and a easy sell to say in the future to say why be nearly in when we can be in.
plus as you say people are totally fed up with it.
 
The speed at which the EU have signed off on this deal should ring alarm bells very loudly, they are shafting us and it's all do to the absolutely shocking way the Tories and May have negotiated with the EU and Barnier, putty in their hands we've been.
 
I thought she had no chance but like you said who knows now , she’s ridden though another storm and labour simply haven’t grasped the nettle in my opinion. The public wanted Brexit the referendum showed that but now I honestly thing a huge proportion just want this over , the division and the arguing .

The impression I get is people are as close as it gets to having had enough . The British public as a whole aren’t represented by what joe , pete , Bruce or me and what any of us want. The impression I get is people want a line drawn under the mess we’re in . I could be wrong like .
The genie is out of the bottle now and it can't be put back in. I genuinely can't see a line being drawn under this issue no matter what happens in the near future.

The whole constitutional make up of the UK will be up for discussion and debate in the years to come and it is anyone's guess as to what the outcome will be. Any solution agreed in the short-term will antagonise one side or the other so there is no obvious way it can be resolved satisfactorily. The idea put forward that there could be some kind of post-Brexit utopia is total fantasy.
 
That is extremely disingenuous if you're referring to the electorate.
A decision was made and handed to parliament to carry out. As is usual the careerists decided to fudge the decision for their own interests, across the board, and in doing so have completely undermined the centuries of hard fought for democratic process and rendered the 'mother of all parliaments' a complete joke and unnecessary inconvenience to the British people.
That some are whining over the 'loss from Europe' nobody is paying any attention to the loss from this country.
This isn't about nationalism or patriotism, far from it, it's about what level of control you allow the state to have.
All the right wingers on here moan about state interference, the left about accountability, nobody talks about devolving decisions and control to the people themselves.
Watch it all disappear in a couple of years.
You make some very interesting points.
The desire to leave was the narrow winning outcome of the referendum. Obviously the country is badly split on the issue.
The onus was on the Government rather than parliament as a whole (Commons and Lords) to choose the way to respond/deliver. It went full on for the Brexit means Brexit narrative going into the unknown with a tight deadline giving the impression, as politicians do, that they had all the answers. During this Brexit process the Commons fought hard and won the right to have a vote over the deal which the govt and its specific appointees ( Brexit Secretaries, Davis then Raab) might achieve which, iirc, the govt was very reluctant to allow early on.

May has taken increasing control over the UK Govt side of the negotiations, making it strongly about trusting her judgements/decisions and has now settled on a final position which is up for ratification or not by the House of Commons. So I am not sure the mother of all parliaments is really being rendered a complete joke although the members of the commons are certainly faced with a very awkward choice mixing up party loyalties, personal preferences about Europe, the views of their constituents in the referendum which might or might not have changed since summer 2016.
And more than everything else they are now faced with a choice between a deal most (it seems at the moment) do not favour and a possible no deal which most of them seem to think will be very bad news overall. What a mess! But the "carrying out the process" has been going on though since the referendum; lobbying the PM and her advisors, discussing/questioning in the Commons, debates left right and centre about the issue and there will be a vote on her deal.
Tory party issues kicked this process off and have been front and centre throughout. Divisions in the main opposition about the benefits of the EU have added to the complexity of the issue. The fact that the PM or whoever was negotiating could not just make Europe disappear and say "see ya we're off" meant negotiations would always be likely to lead to a version of leave that had never been specified by the referendum hence the continued chaos over the whole issue. Her clear reluctance to state that she thinks her deal is better than staying in is really telling IMO and shows what a mess she is in.

However, every voter can still try to influence their MP by direct contact prior to the vote and I am considering doing that with my own although I do not know what his current thinking/intention might be. I do not expect my contact with him will determine his vote or even influence it at all, but it is all we have apart from a general election every 5 years where most seats are pretty safe one way or the other anyway and any GE would not usually be a one issue vote. Interesting but very frustrating times these.

A carefully worded second referendum would be a further exercise in direct democracy and might produce a clear mandate to try to stop the whole process. It might also produce a very split result according to the options....... one of which might be "seek a better deal" which would still have to be ratified by the Commons!!!!!! Groundhog Day!!! It might also produce an even stronger mandate to leave although that in itself of course won't help with the process.
 
You make some very interesting points.
The desire to leave was the narrow winning outcome of the referendum. Obviously the country is badly split on the issue.
The onus was on the Government rather than parliament as a whole (Commons and Lords) to choose the way to respond/deliver. It went full on for the Brexit means Brexit narrative going into the unknown with a tight deadline giving the impression, as politicians do, that they had all the answers. During this Brexit process the Commons fought hard and won the right to have a vote over the deal which the govt and its specific appointees ( Brexit Secretaries, Davis then Raab) might achieve which, iirc, the govt was very reluctant to allow early on.

May has taken increasing control over the UK Govt side of the negotiations, making it strongly about trusting her judgements/decisions and has now settled on a final position which is up for ratification or not by the House of Commons. So I am not sure the mother of all parliaments is really being rendered a complete joke although the members of the commons are certainly faced with a very awkward choice mixing up party loyalties, personal preferences about Europe, the views of their constituents in the referendum which might or might not have changed since summer 2016.
And more than everything else they are now faced with a choice between a deal most (it seems at the moment) do not favour and a possible no deal which most of them seem to think will be very bad news overall. What a mess! But the "carrying out the process" has been going on though since the referendum; lobbying the PM and her advisors, discussing/questioning in the Commons, debates left right and centre about the issue and there will be a vote on her deal.
Tory party issues kicked this process off and have been front and centre throughout. Divisions in the main opposition about the benefits of the EU have added to the complexity of the issue. The fact that the PM or whoever was negotiating could not just make Europe disappear and say "see ya we're off" meant negotiations would always be likely to lead to a version of leave that had never been specified by the referendum hence the continued chaos over the whole issue. Her clear reluctance to state that she thinks her deal is better than staying in is really telling IMO and shows what a mess she is in.

However, every voter can still try to influence their MP by direct contact prior to the vote and I am considering doing that with my own although I do not know what his current thinking/intention might be. I do not expect my contact with him will determine his vote or even influence it at all, but it is all we have apart from a general election every 5 years where most seats are pretty safe one way or the other anyway and any GE would not usually be a one issue vote. Interesting but very frustrating times these.

A carefully worded second referendum would be a further exercise in direct democracy and might produce a clear mandate to try to stop the whole process. It might also produce a very split result according to the options....... one of which might be "seek a better deal" which would still have to be ratified by the Commons!!!!!! Groundhog Day!!! It might also produce an even stronger mandate to leave although that in itself of course won't help with the process.

Rationality and reasoned. Thank you for such a collected response.
I have stated many times that it should never have been a yes/no question. That it was I find very suspicious considering the legal inputs available. An informed question with a qualifying return would have been more appropriate for such a divisive subject. But maybe the division was intended?.
 
Rationality and reasoned. Thank you for such a collected response.
I have stated many times that it should never have been a yes/no question. That it was I find very suspicious considering the legal inputs available. An informed question with a qualifying return would have been more appropriate for such a divisive subject. But maybe the division was intended?.
Interesting point! I agree 100% that the issue should not have been put to a referendum the way it was. I still lean towards it being cock up rather than anything else though, just about!! For some people keeping the Tory party "together" was more important than anything.
 
..so ironic that May says Corbyn is playing ‘party politics’ in refusing to accept a deal when she appointed Brexit Ministers (Davies and Raab) to appease a faction in her party.

From the outset this should’ve been a cross-party, inclusive negotiation aimed at getting a majority in Parliament. It would’ve isolated the hard Brexiteers but it would’ve been a less divisive approach and it would’ve ended in an agreed deal.

I hate it when May and others arrogantly talk about the ‘exit the British public voted for’. The British voters voted to leave, they didn’t articulate the detail of leaving.
 
You make some very interesting points.
The desire to leave was the narrow winning outcome of the referendum. Obviously the country is badly split on the issue.
The onus was on the Government rather than parliament as a whole (Commons and Lords) to choose the way to respond/deliver. It went full on for the Brexit means Brexit narrative going into the unknown with a tight deadline giving the impression, as politicians do, that they had all the answers. During this Brexit process the Commons fought hard and won the right to have a vote over the deal which the govt and its specific appointees ( Brexit Secretaries, Davis then Raab) might achieve which, iirc, the govt was very reluctant to allow early on.

May has taken increasing control over the UK Govt side of the negotiations, making it strongly about trusting her judgements/decisions and has now settled on a final position which is up for ratification or not by the House of Commons. So I am not sure the mother of all parliaments is really being rendered a complete joke although the members of the commons are certainly faced with a very awkward choice mixing up party loyalties, personal preferences about Europe, the views of their constituents in the referendum which might or might not have changed since summer 2016.
And more than everything else they are now faced with a choice between a deal most (it seems at the moment) do not favour and a possible no deal which most of them seem to think will be very bad news overall. What a mess! But the "carrying out the process" has been going on though since the referendum; lobbying the PM and her advisors, discussing/questioning in the Commons, debates left right and centre about the issue and there will be a vote on her deal.
Tory party issues kicked this process off and have been front and centre throughout. Divisions in the main opposition about the benefits of the EU have added to the complexity of the issue. The fact that the PM or whoever was negotiating could not just make Europe disappear and say "see ya we're off" meant negotiations would always be likely to lead to a version of leave that had never been specified by the referendum hence the continued chaos over the whole issue. Her clear reluctance to state that she thinks her deal is better than staying in is really telling IMO and shows what a mess she is in.

However, every voter can still try to influence their MP by direct contact prior to the vote and I am considering doing that with my own although I do not know what his current thinking/intention might be. I do not expect my contact with him will determine his vote or even influence it at all, but it is all we have apart from a general election every 5 years where most seats are pretty safe one way or the other anyway and any GE would not usually be a one issue vote. Interesting but very frustrating times these.

A carefully worded second referendum would be a further exercise in direct democracy and might produce a clear mandate to try to stop the whole process. It might also produce a very split result according to the options....... one of which might be "seek a better deal" which would still have to be ratified by the Commons!!!!!! Groundhog Day!!! It might also produce an even stronger mandate to leave although that in itself of course won't help with the process.
The is no time for a 2nd referendum and May knows this it needs parliment Legislation not an amendment all's the government can do is vote it down which they will, then and then add many amendments to the deal for her to take back Keir Starmer cited this today- article 50 is statute in law now and she knows it the only way to squash this crap deal is depose her , and the tories have to do that....
a GE a peoples vote is just a pipedream more like the only option is WTO rules or someone a new leader to do what Trump did to the EU on tariffs, and they caved in in 2 days - she has been at it for 2 years plus and conceded everything......
 
..so ironic that May says Corbyn is playing ‘party politics’ in refusing to accept a deal when she appointed Brexit Ministers (Davies and Raab) to appease a faction in her party.

From the outset this should’ve been a cross-party, inclusive negotiation aimed at getting a majority in Parliament. It would’ve isolated the hard Brexiteers but it would’ve been a less divisive approach and it would’ve ended in an agreed deal.

I hate it when May and others arrogantly talk about the ‘exit the British public voted for’. The British voters voted to leave, they didn’t articulate the detail of leaving.
Cameron is at fault as with Gideon instead of project fear they should have had a proper exit plan , but what do Eton toffs know.......?
how to get rich on the back of others .... talentless gits.........
 
The is no time for a 2nd referendum and May knows this it needs parliment Legislation not an amendment all's the government can do is vote it down which they will, then and then add many amendments to the deal for her to take back Keir Starmer cited this today- article 50 is statute in law now and she knows it the only way to squash this crap deal is depose her , and the tories have to do that....
a GE a peoples vote is just a pipedream more like the only option is WTO rules or someone a new leader to do what Trump did to the EU on tariffs, and they caved in in 2 days - she has been at it for 2 years plus and conceded everything......
I'm pretty sure your new tactic is to write so much that is wrong in one post that it is just too much effort for anyone to address it.

Now Trump is your new hero, first Farage and Bannon then Rees Mogg, and now we finally arrive at Trump. It's a genuine shame to see you promote these awful people
 
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