Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Walken]

I was in Paris the day after the referendum and French people I spoke to couldn’t believe that ‘sensible, calm’ Britain had voted to leave ‘on the back of no real plan for your future’ - there wasn’t even a hint of them thinking glad to see you go or anything like that.

Likewise, I was in Spain but working with Germans, perplexed is the word to describe the reaction I saw. I now know how sensible Americans feel when abroad being asked about trump

 

[Harryflashman]

They should have got rid of her after there will be no GE then had one losing her majority the costly in money depended on the DUP......
This is a botched deal 540 pages of guff it's EU driven - heard on LBC that in yesterday's cabinet meeting a civil servant shouting down a cabinet minister they are there to advise and serve their employment....
This as been the problem remain civil servants led by a remainer in May ....
Don't forget this deal is detested by Remain and Brexit MPs so it's a big worry the fact the cost alone will spiral upwards towards the EU!

It’s always somebody else’s fault joe , always . EU weaponised the Irish border , civil servants are the problem , the remoaners were sabotaging it and didn’t buy into it , may isn’t committed and on

 

[TraffordBlue]

Here's the problem you extreme Brexiteers have though - and it's a problem you had from the start. It's that you have no viable alternative. You never have. So all May has to do is say "what's your alternative?" and you have nothing to say.

All you ever had was crashing out on WTO, which wasn't viable. Because you couldn't present one rational argument as to why Brexit was a good thing for the country, you can't counter something that is obviously a bad thing for the country.

Therein lies the irony - the Brexiteers themselves have made EU membership look better than anything else on the table. Because it always was better. All you ever had was soundbytes and misinformation. By lying about this being the 'easiest trade deal in history', 'taking back control', 'we can separate free movement from free trade' and 'we have the upperhand because of German cars' and all the other nonsense, you played a key role in this nonsense we have before us now.

Your best chance recently was supporting a second referendum on the terms, with 'No Deal' on the table, so that the country as a whole could take collective responsibility on doing something that suicidal if they wanted to. Instead, you feared scrutiny, barking from the sidelines like yapping dogs and being easy to ignore due to inherent extremism and no substance.

But it isn't just the Brexiteers at fault. The other side haven't once accepted that we could leave if the proper process was followed - instead, they wanted to frustrate Brexit altogether, pretending to be on the side of democracy when they were every bit as self-serving as the Brexiteers are; politically gambling on the opposite outcome because they were smart enough to know a 'hard Brexit' would never happen, because whilst 52% voted for Brexit, 0% voted for comparative economic ruin.

This isn't really May's fault. She had literally no choice but to do what she's done - her job is to lead a government and get this through parliament, how's she meant to do that with two diametrically opposed camps with nothing in the middle?

The fault lies with cabinet jobsworths voting to save their own skin tonight, and political extremists refusing to compromise and see a middle road, so May has had to fudge one herself. May has made only one really fatal error in my view - she should have resigned after the GE, as she no longer had the political capital to lead on this issue. She gambled and lost, and should have walked. The Tories didn't push her - they should have.

I said it in 2016 and it's true now - the non-binary referendum should have been what it was - advisory - and the representatives we send to parliament to act on our behalf should have been able to do their job and act in the best interests of their constituents, cross party, without a predetermined view of what Brexit means. If we had done that, we'd have had a semblance of a negotiating position and we could have got something less favourable than membership of the EU but not the total nonsense we now have in front of us.

But we didn't do it. C'est la vie.

Best post i've read on this thread so far, and a balanced view. Don't fully agree about the remain side being at fault for frustrating it, because many of us have felt that Brexit would make us worse off, which is why a lot of remainers did want to frustrate it. But obviously some have gone to the extreme and not ever acknowledged certain issues with the EU, and labelled absolutely everyone who voted out a racist etc.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It's not over yet Bruce May has been your saviour get a Brexit leader in and threatens to take the 50 billion off the table the EU will see it totally different then.......

You mean one of those Brexit leaders who chose not to run as leader during the leadership election that was called off the back of Cameron resigning? One of those? Or maybe one of those who held the most senior positions in the Brexit negotiating team and were roundly hopeless?

Admit it Joe, Brexit is the turd here, not the people negotiating it. You'll feel better.

 

[tsubaki]

To be fair, I think Farage wanted to have a poster with a load of frogs falling from the sky but thought it wasn't racist enough.

You have to hand it to God, His plagues have improved down the years. Who in the Bible had to deal with an infestation of corrupt right wing medio-political nonsense-spouters spreading across the lands?

 

[Harryflashman]

You mean one of those Brexit leaders who chose not to run as leader during the leadership election that was called off the back of Cameron resigning? One of those? Or maybe one of those who held the most senior positions in the Brexit negotiating team and were roundly hopeless?

Admit it Joe, Brexit is the turd here, not the people negotiating it. You'll feel better.

Davis he was a top negotiator tor for those whose four or five hours behind he quit , or Raab who did this deal then quit after a deal he was instrumental in turned up . Maybe gove whose still in there with may or perhaps Boris who changes his position almost daily and couldn’t wait to leg it .

 

[Ruairi77]

Funny people having a go at May as if someone else could have gotten a better deal.
There were only ever three options

Stay in,
Leave with a crappy deal,
Leave with no deal.

After the referendum that was down to two and she’s gone for crappy deal over no deal.
What did people expect?

 

[dublinbluenose]

I'm still not convinced this isn't all some elaborate currency play

 

[Joey66]

who would you have mate?

A true Brexiteer.....
It's like having a LFC person as our manager.....

 

[Harryflashman]

A true Brexiteer.....
It's like having a LFC person as our manager.....

Who , whose your pick or even your shortlist

 

[Jebus_lives]

The scene is set for @peteblue , @Old Blue 2 and @joey blue to ride in and rescue Brexit from the pits of doom.

There's only one man for the job

 

[Kenshin]

Still amazes me how a prime minister can blunder through problem after problem that would have them walk and yet here is may still refusing to leave.

No matter what she is staying, even after messing up a general election!

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

Who , whose your pick or even your shortlist

There's no-one left they've all resigned.

 

[Khalekan]

They should have got rid of her after there will be no GE then had one losing her majority the costly in money depended on the DUP......
This is a botched deal 540 pages of guff it's EU driven - heard on LBC that in yesterday's cabinet meeting a civil servant shouting down a cabinet minister they are there to advise and serve their employment....
This as been the problem remain civil servants led by a remainer in May ....
Don't forget this deal is detested by Remain and Brexit MPs so it's a big worry the fact the cost alone will spiral upwards towards the EU!

Joe.....what is to happen to the money the DUP extorted for NI but which has not been spent there yet?

I hope May takes it back

 

[Walken]

The scene is set for @peteblue , @Old Blue 2 and [B]@joey blue[/B] to ride in and rescue Brexit from the pits of doom.

tremendous work

*doffs cap*