Current Affairs EU In or Out

[orly]

Which mirror were you looking in?lol

It's the facts Joe.

 

[Joey66]

It's the facts Joe.

Believe it when it happens .......

 

[DanEFC92]

 

[Charlie Sweet]

At the risk of the usual attacks, I'll reply to the above.

I'll quote the pertinent parts of what what my reply was directed at:
"...So nobody disagrees..."

"...Nobody can really point..."

"...Nobody trusts..."

"...Nobody can answer..."

"...The NHS £350m a week line was a lie..."

So the person comes out with what may be termed definitive statements. He is speaking for every single person in in the UK? Really, Bruce? You swallow that without question?

As for the old chestnut of the NHS and £350 million, you know full well that I have explained many times in this thread that it was an equivalent figure, and neither the Remain nor Leave campaign had any executive power to implement anything. That is the remit of the Government of the day.

Hence my single sentence response...

Okay so I change my statement to "a very large majority" rather than "all". That make you happy?

No, Bruce. We cannot foretell the future. I know what I'll be doing next week-end, for example, but I haven't a clue how it will turn out...

Wow!

So if you were running a business and had to make a big decision - say to takeover another company or to enter a new market - what would you do?

Well, assuming you'd do what probably every other business owner would likely do, you'd do some research to try and help your key decision. Do you disagree? Now that research could be just chatting to a few mates in the relevant industry (you'd be sure to pick ones that know what they are talking about) or it could be undertaking some serious market research and then working on legal/financial due diligence.

Whichever route you'd take you'd use that info to work out, to the best of your ability, how the decision would play out. Then, whether it's a bank or a single investor backing the company, you'd have to answer a question on your expectation of a future financial return. Agree?

As Bruce has said we live our lives by forecasting. It's just common sense isn't it to try and work out the best options?

To me the fact that a huge majority of economists and corporate business leaders say we will be significantly poorer is entirely relevant!


As for the £350m NHS line - go on defend it. Dress it up however you want but the clear suggestion was that a vote to Leave could result in a massive cash boost for the NHS.

Now that's been proven to be utter tripe as with an economy on its backside the ability of the exchequer to fund the NHS even at current levels is seriously threatened.

Of course it wasn't a legal promise. Or a guarentee. But it was a dam clear sales slogan.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

What about this for an analogy @peteblue @Joey66 @Old Blue 2

In 2016 the Everton owner asks the club's fans to vote to either stay at Goodison or to leave for a new stadium.

There's no details on the new stadium but there's a hell of a fuss about the club meeting to move with the times, trusting some great artistic images and listening to some great celebrity fans say that the old girl is an eyesore and we have to trust in our history as a great club to be great again.

By a small percentage the fans vote to leave Goodison for a new ground.

Two years later the location of the ground and the design of the stadium are all very underwhelming. Also virtually everyone is saying moving will mean Everton are poorer in the short and medium term. After that then maybe it could all work out great. But nobody is sure.

Also, along the way, it turns out the issue of moving risks reviving a trouble element we had within our fan base that had previously been dead for 20 years.

In that scenario is it really outrageous for fans to want the chance to have another vote?

 

[Joey66]

What about this for an analogy @peteblue @Joey66 @Old Blue 2

In 2016 the Everton owner asks the club's fans to vote to either stay at Goodison or to leave for a new stadium.

There's no details on the new stadium but there's a hell of a fuss about the club meeting to move with the times, trusting some great artistic images and listening to some great celebrity fans say that the old girl is an eyesore and we have to trust in our history as a great club to be great again.

By a small percentage the fans vote to leave Goodison for a new ground.

Two years later the location of the ground and the design of the stadium are all very underwhelming. Also virtually everyone is saying moving will mean Everton are poorer in the short and medium term. After that then maybe it could all work out great. But nobody is sure.

Also, along the way, it turns out the issue of moving risks reviving a trouble element we had within our fan base that had previously been dead for 20 years.

In that scenario is it really outrageous for fans to want the chance to have another vote?

We had one vote for the kings dock and bungling Bill blew it....
One demand to move to move to Kirkby, and thank goodness the planners stoped it
Also the move did not cost nine billion per annum.......
And be managed by LFC.......
Also let their fans in for free......

 

[Old Blue 2]

Okay so I change my statement to "a very large majority" rather than "all". That make you happy?







Wow!

So if you were running a business and had to make a big decision - say to takeover another company or to enter a new market - what would you do?

Well, assuming you'd do what probably every other business owner would likely do, you'd do some research to try and help your key decision. Do you disagree? Now that research could be just chatting to a few mates in the relevant industry (you'd be sure to pick ones that know what they are talking about) or it could be undertaking some serious market research and then working on legal/financial due diligence.

Whichever route you'd take you'd use that info to work out, to the best of your ability, how the decision would play out. Then, whether it's a bank or a single investor backing the company, you'd have to answer a question on your expectation of a future financial return. Agree?

As Bruce has said we live our lives by forecasting. It's just common sense isn't it to try and work out the best options?

To me the fact that a huge majority of economists and corporate business leaders say we will be significantly poorer is entirely relevant!


As for the £350m NHS line - go on defend it. Dress it up however you want but the clear suggestion was that a vote to Leave could result in a massive cash boost for the NHS.

Now that's been proven to be utter tripe as with an economy on its backside the ability of the exchequer to fund the NHS even at current levels is seriously threatened.

Of course it wasn't a legal promise. Or a guarentee. But it was a dam clear sales slogan.

You misinterpret my comment completely. PM me if you want to know what I'm talking about. This point covers the next four paragraphs after your 'Wow'.

As for the £350 million, I realise you haven't been in this thread from the start, so probably will have missed what has been posted previously about that figure. It is, and always has been, a comparative figure. As I have stated recently in this thread (I think within the last day or so), neither campaign in the Referendum had any executive power to implement anything.

'...enough to build a new NHS hospital every week...'. It is a comparative, not an undertaking. That could not be done (undertaking). Too many have seized on it and got hold of the complete wrong end of the stick (or chose to distort it to what it was not). And it wasn't a 'sales slogan'. It was a comparative.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That leaflet though.

 

[summerisle]

It is a terrible state of affairs, especially given the impact that it has had on everyone else. I am not saying we should go down the Logan's Run route but there really should be a rebalancing of priorities.

 

[Socrates]

"no Russian money was in the £8 million donated" was a bit of an odd statement to make

 

[peteblue]

What about this for an analogy @peteblue @Joey66 @Old Blue 2

In 2016 the Everton owner asks the club's fans to vote to either stay at Goodison or to leave for a new stadium.

There's no details on the new stadium but there's a hell of a fuss about the club meeting to move with the times, trusting some great artistic images and listening to some great celebrity fans say that the old girl is an eyesore and we have to trust in our history as a great club to be great again.

By a small percentage the fans vote to leave Goodison for a new ground.

Two years later the location of the ground and the design of the stadium are all very underwhelming. Also virtually everyone is saying moving will mean Everton are poorer in the short and medium term. After that then maybe it could all work out great. But nobody is sure.

Also, along the way, it turns out the issue of moving risks reviving a trouble element we had within our fan base that had previously been dead for 20 years.

In that scenario is it really outrageous for fans to want the chance to have another vote?

It’s not quite the same is it. Now if you had said that we had voted to move into GP back in the 70’s in order to play football, but then they changed it to also play cricket and rugby and the prices kept going up and then they brought more and more teams into the ground and our club had very little control over what happens, then that might be a fairer comparison. And yes, I would vote to leave, not only to go to a shiny new ground, but I would also have voted to leave to go and play in any field that we controlled.......

 

[Joey66]

It’s not quite the same is it. Now if you had said that we had voted to move into GP back in the 70’s in order to play football, but then they changed it to also play cricket and rugby and the prices kept going up and then they brought more and more teams into the ground and our club had very little control over what happens, then that might be a fairer comparison. And yes, I would vote to leave, not only to go to a shiny new ground, but I would also have voted to leave to go and play in any field that we controlled.......

The deal is on hold - why Barnier his schedule this week is too busy - Rabb is rumoured to resigning .......
As the backstop deal is the problem signed by May and Robbins in the early hours last December.....

 

[neil999]

The deal is on hold - why Barnier his schedule this week is too busy - Rabb is rumoured to resigning .......
As the backstop deal is the problem signed by May and Robbins in the early hours last December.....

really?! lol flippin heck they are gonna run out of mps for brexit soon! lol

 

[Ruairi77]

There seems to be a lot of talk on here about honoring the democratic process. If this is true why is there a problem with accepting the backstop?

 

[roydo]

There seems to be a lot of talk on here about honoring the democratic process. If this is true why is there a problem with accepting the backstop?

I am happy to admit, I am not exactly sure what that actually is, nor what it actually does, other than giving everyone some time to go to their bedroom and think about you have done.