Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Joey66]

ouch

Try typing on this thing when wired up....

 

[PhilM]

This is an interesting one as I've had this discussion with the in-laws a lot. It's an unrelated analogy, but I think it's relevant, so bear with me. It was almost universal among the family that the communists were bad, but there reaction to the occupation was different. Some opposed the party openly and made no bones about their distaste for the situation. Others accepted the situation and tried to make the best of it without compromising their beliefs too much.

Instinctively I have more respect for the part who stuck to their principles, and it was perhaps these principled folk who eventually helped to bring the wall down. Many of them were utterly miserable however, with depression and alcoholism pretty high. Those who just tried to do their best seemed generally happier with things.

There's a classic Czech novel by Jiri Menzel called I Served The King of England, and it kinda revolves around the philosophy of Arthur Schopenhauer in that the world as we know it, is just how we perceive it to be. The protagonist in the book lives through both German and Soviet invasions of his country, yet often seems blithely unaware of them as he attempts to make the best of whatever life throws at him.

It seems an incredibly hard philosophy to adopt (for me at least), but I do wonder if it wouldn't make life that much happier to live.

While I infer that you weren't having a jibe at me (I wouldn't take offence either way), I think that it's important to distinguish between the principles that I abide by.

Like I said, at the time I firmly believed that Brexit was not the best option for this country and I still wholeheartedly believe that it isn't - more so how it's going.

Yes, perhaps it's a dilution or abandonment of my views towards our relationship with the EU, but ultimately it is an acknowledgement of my belief in democracy.

People desired a vote to decide, it was provided by parliament and the majority of the electorate (however so slim) decided on leaving the European Union.

I disagreed with the decision and I acknowledge that there was some misinformation, but this has taken place in every democratic election this country has had.

I find it difficult to then question the decision if I am to believe in the principle of democracy. Obviously, a communist occupation is a very much different affair.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

While I infer that you weren't having a jibe at me (I wouldn't take offence either way), I think that it's important to distinguish between the principles that I abide by.

Like I said, at the time I firmly believed that Brexit was not the best option for this country and I still wholeheartedly believe that it isn't - more so how it's going.

Yes, perhaps it's a dilution or abandonment of my views towards our relationship with the EU, but ultimately it is an acknowledgement of my belief in democracy.

People desired a vote to decide, it was provided by parliament and the majority of the electorate (however so slim) decided on leaving the European Union.

I disagreed with the decision and I acknowledge that there was some misinformation, but this has taken place in every democratic election this country has had.

I find it difficult to then question the decision if I am to believe in the principle of democracy. Obviously, a communist occupation is a very much different affair.

No, not at all mate. Just thinking out loud really of what is the best response when you think a certain way (the right way, at least in your own mind), but things aren't going to turn out that way, and you have very limited means of changing things. It might be best for you individually to park your belief and make the best of things, but for society for those 'martyrs' to keep banging the drum. No idea tbh.

 

[orchard]

This is an interesting one as I've had this discussion with the in-laws a lot. It's an unrelated analogy, but I think it's relevant, so bear with me. It was almost universal among the family that the communists were bad, but their reaction to the occupation was different. Some opposed the party openly and made no bones about their distaste for the situation. Others accepted the situation and tried to make the best of it without compromising their beliefs too much.

Instinctively I have more respect for the part who stuck to their principles, and it was perhaps these principled folk who eventually helped to bring the wall down. Many of them were utterly miserable however, with depression and alcoholism pretty high. Those who just tried to do their best seemed generally happier with things.

There's a classic Czech novel by Jiri Menzel called I Served The King of England, and it kinda revolves around the philosophy of Arthur Schopenhauer in that the world as we know it, is just how we perceive it to be. The protagonist in the book lives through both German and Soviet invasions of his country, yet often seems blithely unaware of them as he attempts to make the best of whatever life throws at him.

It seems an incredibly hard philosophy to adopt (for me at least), but I do wonder if it wouldn't make life that much happier to live.

Schopenhauer thought pleasure was the absence of pain (which was the real stimulus). It's essentially a Kantian (Schopenhauer's tutor) philosophy you're describing, although I'm not familiar with the work you mention.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Schopenhauer thought pleasure was the absence of pain (which was the real stimulus). It's essentially a Kantian (Schopenhauer's tutor) philosophy you're describing, although I'm not familiar with the work you mention.

As is always the case, the book is better, but still...

 

[neil999]

Try typing on this thing when wired up....

good to hear your doing well, always good to hear the other side of the argument on this even if we dont agree

 

[Joey66]

Home again bit shaky, but again top treatment, been told to telephone 999 if the pain around my lower stomach in the kidney area starts again - not upto date much about Brexit today other than I read chequers is never going to,work......

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Home again bit shaky, but again top treatment, been told to telephone 999 if the pain around my lower stomach in the kidney area starts again - not upto date much about Brexit today other than I read chequers is never going to,work......

It's probably an illegal alien mate. Those migrants are crafty buggers. Even Sigourny is screaming OUT.

 

[Joey66]

It's probably an illegal alien mate. Those migrants are crafty buggers. Even Sigourny is screaming OUT.

Poor taste Brucelol
Project fear......

 

[peteblue]

Bruce and the Remainers go into panic mode....

 

[Armel]

The final report of the Belgacom (state owned Belgian communication company) hacking has finally arrived - dating back from 2013, (I'm sure it's possible to find more about it; apart from Snowden. It's not all negative though; they had to spend 50 mil € to increase the security of the entire network). It was already quite certain that it was GCHQ but now it's finally finished. Not only the hacking, the British, also actively sabotage(d) the investigation. One of the purposes apparently looking into EU communication. Previously I thought it was settled (the whole thing disappeared into the background after the 2015, 2016 terrorism episodes- better things to do I suppose). It has come to the forefront again now, will be interesting to see if it's escalated into a diplomatic incident. Not really sure if it's really helpful if they want to get future access to sensitive security data from (future) EU projects (well in a legitimate way that is).

 

[summerisle]

 

[Old Blue 2]

Neil Perryman doesn't have the basic intelligence/understanding to realise that one was a UK-wide cross-party matter, and the other is an in-party leadership issue. Who is he anyway? Illuminating to see who has 'liked' the previous post... lol

More important issue: We are at Old Trafford on Sunday - please God let us play well and smash them even further below us!

 

[peteblue]

I see Sadiq Khan is now going over to see Barnier to tell him that he’s pushing for a second vote. I might have to pop over and see him myself at this rate.......is there anybody out there who has not undermined our negotiation team yet ?....,,

 

[roydo]

I see Sadiq Khan is now going over to see Barnier to tell him that he’s pushing for a second vote. I might have to pop over and see him myself at this rate.......is there anybody out there who has not undermined our negotiation team yet ?....,,

Whilst we disagree on the fundamental issue Pete, I also struggle to see what positive outcome this could achieve. I also struggle to see in what capacity Khan is representing himself as.