Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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Nor to you, or other remainers yet project fears is ramping up a people's vote another posh word for a 2nd referendum and we have not even left the EU as yet .......

People are raising concerns about what will happen if we leave the EU with no deal, and to date no one has really expressed anything to say otherwise, either from the government themselves or from people who are actively involved in these things. For instance, you won't know as you don't travel, but most airlines selling tickets for > March 2019 are including a Brexit clause saying that tickets might not be valid after that date.

That isn't them doing it for the sake of it, that's them doing it because they've received no guarantee that things won't be ballsed up. The Guardian piece I mentioned earlier had senior managers from NHS Trusts saying they've had no input from the government on Brexit planning, whether for staffing or medicines. This is the case across so many sectors of our society.

So yes, you've got all of this on one hand, and then you've got your hope on the other. And you wonder why people get angry.
 
People are raising concerns about what will happen if we leave the EU with no deal, and to date no one has really expressed anything to say otherwise, either from the government themselves or from people who are actively involved in these things. For instance, you won't know as you don't travel, but most airlines selling tickets for > March 2019 are including a Brexit clause saying that tickets might not be valid after that date.

That isn't them doing it for the sake of it, that's them doing it because they've received no guarantee that things won't be ballsed up. The Guardian piece I mentioned earlier had senior managers from NHS Trusts saying they've had no input from the government on Brexit planning, whether for staffing or medicines. This is the case across so many sectors of our society.

So yes, you've got all of this on one hand, and then you've got your hope on the other. And you wonder why people get angry.
Change angry to being rational and your BP may lower ........a deal has not happened as yet no deal will never happen ....
 
Change angry to being rational and your BP may lower ........a deal has not happened as yet no deal will never happen ....

Yet you've had Pete actively agitating for no deal extensively in recent weeks. I'm not sure being rational is an option when we're so close to March and there is still no indication if your wife can even stay in the country or not. Would you be rational?
 
No I am not sorted - Again project fear is being ramped up by your post - before we joined the common market I can remember in the late 1960,s Benidorm was easilily accessable form the UK.......
In fact it was so easy you could get a temporary monthly passport from the post office ....
Just as times Chang a negotiated Brexit deal will not change travel .....

The post was a direct quote from Labour MEP Richard Corbett, so hardly a project fear post. The problem is Joey the government is not addressing these issues, the government is not coping at all and we continue to lurch toward a bad-deal or worse case a no deal Brexit.
 
Yet you've had Pete actively agitating for no deal extensively in recent weeks. I'm not sure being rational is an option when we're so close to March and there is still no indication if your wife can even stay in the country or not. Would you be rational?

You might have already said this, only skim this thread from time to time, but why don't you just emigrate ? Fact etc aren't helping. We all have an idea how is this is going to shape up. You're relatively young, quite wealthy I think, your wife has a EU nationality and does something in healthcare... She'd be overwhelmed with job offers. Look around countries like Belgium, the Netherlands etc... are actively searching for workers in that sector (as far as in Spain etc...). You'd probably have to get used a bit to the high taxes (compared to the U.K) but as a return you get a lot of things for "free". Oh and most of it are taxes on labour, not capital. So if you have a good tax advisor you get away with paying very little. If you're afraid of missing your family London is literally very close etc ... Just saying.

As a plus you could possibly go somewhere where they have a more positive attitude towards cyclists. It's not too late, look at Tafi 52, and still wants to ride Paris-Roubaix...
 
The post was a direct quote from Labour MEP Richard Corbett, so hardly a project fear post. The problem is Joey the government is not addressing these issues, the government is not coping at all and we continue to lurch toward a bad-deal or worse case a no deal Brexit.

This is a good point. We are not preparing. We are being suckered into hanging on for a deal. We should get on with it and make our preparations. I blame our Remainer Chancellor for this mess.....
 
I’m just amazed we are all still alive tbh. If only we had the technology and knew how to build refrigeration plants.......oh well best call Brexit off then.....

Havnt left yet Pete. As of now, Honda can get as many handbrakes from Europe to lob into their cars built in Swindon as they like. And when they like. Easily with zero bother. (M4 notwithstanding, but even I wont blame that on Brexit).

And as of now, on 30th March next year, they, along with 100% of the UK car industry, do not have a clue how the delivery system will work. And no one has told them anything.

Good eh?
 
Havnt left yet Pete. As of now, Honda can get as many handbrakes from Europe to lob into their cars built in Swindon as they like. And when they like. Easily with zero bother. (M4 notwithstanding, but even I wont blame that on Brexit).

And as of now, on 30th March next year, they, along with 100% of the UK car industry, do not have a clue how the delivery system will work. And no one has told them anything.

Good eh?

The delivery system will either work as it currently does if we have a deal, or it may inject a slight ordering delay and increase a cost due to import duty if we go to WTO. The import duty issue could be overcome by claiming it back via an amended tax system similar to VAT as the U.K. government will have received the import duty. The Chancellor needs to be putting something like this into law. Any ordering delay will just be incorporated into normal business planning. I agree no one one may have told them, but that is because May is betting her career and our wellbeing on obtaining a deal.....a no deal plan should have already been put in place and if it isn’t then both politicians and civil servants should be dealt with. However I cannot imagine a single major business not having such plans in place......
 
@dholliday and @peteblue

German chancellor Angela Merkel’s decision in 2015 to keep her country’s borders open and give shelter to hundreds of thousands of refugees was praised by commentators and leaders around the world. Her decision was also approved of by thousands of German citizens who welcomed refugees and provided clothes, food, and other support.

The term welcome culture, or Willkommenskultur, was frequently used in political debates and the media to describe the events of autumn 2015.
But a year later, the picture had changed dramatically. By the end of 2016, the public debate had shifted to focus on the so-called refugee crisis, or Flüchtlingskrise, alongside the religion of refugees and migrants, and limits to Germany’s capacity to integrate them. The change of perspective was reflected in discussions about upper limitsObergrenzen— of the numbers of refugees that should be allowed to enter the country.

Our recently published research suggests that welcome culture has never been as widely embedded in German society as public debates in 2015 would make us believe. But also that there was no widespread perception that Germany was undergoing a “refugee crisis” in 2016.

Three quarters of the German citizens we surveyed were initially sceptical about refugees and migrants. Yet, in line with other studies, we found most held strong humanitarian views. Despite large changes in the focus of public debates between 2015 and 2016, our research indicates that citizens’ views remained relatively stable over that period of time – and they weren’t actually all that welcoming to start with.

We initially surveyed 861 citizens across Germany in November 2015, and 418 answered the same survey questions again a year later. Our survey differs from other research using general questions on immigration because we asked respondents about a concrete situation – their preferences towards refugee homes in their vicinity. This was a realistic prospect, because homes for refugees had to be established across the country in 2015.
Participants were offered varying descriptions of refugee (and migrant) homes to be built in their vicinity, and repeatedly asked to select their preferred configurations. The scenarios differed in characteristics such as the refugee inhabitants’ main country of origin, their religion, as well as the conditions of the home and its distance from the respondents’ home.

Humanitarian views

Some differences and similarities emerged across the sample. Two groups could be distinguished in 2015, as the graph below shows. The first and smaller group – 20% of our respondents – were rather approving of refugee homes in their vicinity, while the second and larger group of 80% was rather disapproving.

Influence of different characteristics of the refugee/migrant homes on the probability of accepting a home in the vicinity.Liebe U, Meyerhoff J, Kroesen M, Chorus C, Glenk K (2018) From welcome culture to welcome limits? Uncovering preference changes over time for sheltering refugees in Germany, Author provided (No reuse)

Still, both groups shared strong humanitarian views. They favoured refugees from Syria, affected by the tragic war in the Middle East, over refugees from other countries such as Nigeria. They also preferred families coming to Germany rather than single people. Decent housing conditions such as empty, large buildings and renovated houses were favoured over buildings made from containers.

But the rather disapproving group preferred non-Muslim to Muslim refugees, fewer refugees living in the accommodation, and a larger distance between the refugee home and their own home. In contrast, the rather approving group did not differentiate Muslim and non-Muslim refugees, were not concerned by the number of people living in the refugee homes, and approved if the refugees were to live close to their own home.

A large majority of the sample didn’t change their views when we re-interviewed them in 2016. Only 8% of respondents became more approving of refugee homes in their vicinity, while 9% became more disapproving, in line with changes in the public debate on refugees. Recent comprehensive polls on integration in 2018 point to a similar degree of stability of views on immigration.

Survey participants who stated that there were refugee homes in their vicinity at the time of the 2016 survey, and who told us that they had been in contact with refugees, were more likely to be rather approving of refugee homes and were also more likely to retain these views. This also applies to citizens who were better educated and who had a more positive attitude towards immigrants in general.

Mismatch in debates

Contrary to what political debates and media suggest, our research shows that citizens’ views are not dominated by the origin and religion of refugees. Other issues, such sheltering refugee families rather than single people, or decent housing conditions, are more important.

And we found that German citizens were sceptical of sheltering refugees in their vicinity at the time when the country’s Willkommenskultur was being lauded worldwide. Claims about this “welcome culture” were likely to have been exaggerated. Meanwhile, subsequent focus on German people’s concerns about the “refugee crisis” might also have been overrated, because it ignored the strong humanitarian views held by the majority of citizens.

Overall, there was and still is today a mismatch between people’s views, the focus of political debates about refugees and media coverage of these issues.
 
You might have already said this, only skim this thread from time to time, but why don't you just emigrate ? Fact etc aren't helping. We all have an idea how is this is going to shape up. You're relatively young, quite wealthy I think, your wife has a EU nationality and does something in healthcare... She'd be overwhelmed with job offers. Look around countries like Belgium, the Netherlands etc... are actively searching for workers in that sector (as far as in Spain etc...). You'd probably have to get used a bit to the high taxes (compared to the U.K) but as a return you get a lot of things for "free". Oh and most of it are taxes on labour, not capital. So if you have a good tax advisor you get away with paying very little. If you're afraid of missing your family London is literally very close etc ... Just saying.

As a plus you could possibly go somewhere where they have a more positive attitude towards cyclists. It's not too late, look at Tafi 52, and still wants to ride Paris-Roubaix...

To be honest, I'm more keen on that than she is as I can pretty much do what I do from anywhere. She works in children's healthcare, which isn't always well catered for in certain parts of Europe, although it's increasingly not here either. I'm up for it, although it might require digging up some Irish ancestry from the archives.

I’m just amazed we are all still alive tbh. If only we had the technology and knew how to build refrigeration plants.......oh well best call Brexit off then.....

Very trite Pete. Firstly, we haven't left yet so none of the supply issues people are concerned about are in place. Secondly, as the article clearly says, the government are fudging the construction of refrigeration to such an extent that they want to recommission waste fridges from landfill. I know you refuse to countenance that your chosen plan might in any way go wrong, but it's getting quite silly.
 
@dholliday and @peteblue

German chancellor Angela Merkel’s decision in 2015 to keep her country’s borders open and give shelter to hundreds of thousands of refugees was praised by commentators and leaders around the world. Her decision was also approved of by thousands of German citizens who welcomed refugees and provided clothes, food, and other support.

The term welcome culture, or Willkommenskultur, was frequently used in political debates and the media to describe the events of autumn 2015.
But a year later, the picture had changed dramatically. By the end of 2016, the public debate had shifted to focus on the so-called refugee crisis, or Flüchtlingskrise, alongside the religion of refugees and migrants, and limits to Germany’s capacity to integrate them. The change of perspective was reflected in discussions about upper limitsObergrenzen— of the numbers of refugees that should be allowed to enter the country.

Our recently published research suggests that welcome culture has never been as widely embedded in German society as public debates in 2015 would make us believe. But also that there was no widespread perception that Germany was undergoing a “refugee crisis” in 2016.

Three quarters of the German citizens we surveyed were initially sceptical about refugees and migrants. Yet, in line with other studies, we found most held strong humanitarian views. Despite large changes in the focus of public debates between 2015 and 2016, our research indicates that citizens’ views remained relatively stable over that period of time – and they weren’t actually all that welcoming to start with.

We initially surveyed 861 citizens across Germany in November 2015, and 418 answered the same survey questions again a year later. Our survey differs from other research using general questions on immigration because we asked respondents about a concrete situation – their preferences towards refugee homes in their vicinity. This was a realistic prospect, because homes for refugees had to be established across the country in 2015.
Participants were offered varying descriptions of refugee (and migrant) homes to be built in their vicinity, and repeatedly asked to select their preferred configurations. The scenarios differed in characteristics such as the refugee inhabitants’ main country of origin, their religion, as well as the conditions of the home and its distance from the respondents’ home.

Humanitarian views

Some differences and similarities emerged across the sample. Two groups could be distinguished in 2015, as the graph below shows. The first and smaller group – 20% of our respondents – were rather approving of refugee homes in their vicinity, while the second and larger group of 80% was rather disapproving.

Influence of different characteristics of the refugee/migrant homes on the probability of accepting a home in the vicinity.Liebe U, Meyerhoff J, Kroesen M, Chorus C, Glenk K (2018) From welcome culture to welcome limits? Uncovering preference changes over time for sheltering refugees in Germany, Author provided (No reuse)

Still, both groups shared strong humanitarian views. They favoured refugees from Syria, affected by the tragic war in the Middle East, over refugees from other countries such as Nigeria. They also preferred families coming to Germany rather than single people. Decent housing conditions such as empty, large buildings and renovated houses were favoured over buildings made from containers.

But the rather disapproving group preferred non-Muslim to Muslim refugees, fewer refugees living in the accommodation, and a larger distance between the refugee home and their own home. In contrast, the rather approving group did not differentiate Muslim and non-Muslim refugees, were not concerned by the number of people living in the refugee homes, and approved if the refugees were to live close to their own home.

A large majority of the sample didn’t change their views when we re-interviewed them in 2016. Only 8% of respondents became more approving of refugee homes in their vicinity, while 9% became more disapproving, in line with changes in the public debate on refugees. Recent comprehensive polls on integration in 2018 point to a similar degree of stability of views on immigration.

Survey participants who stated that there were refugee homes in their vicinity at the time of the 2016 survey, and who told us that they had been in contact with refugees, were more likely to be rather approving of refugee homes and were also more likely to retain these views. This also applies to citizens who were better educated and who had a more positive attitude towards immigrants in general.

Mismatch in debates

Contrary to what political debates and media suggest, our research shows that citizens’ views are not dominated by the origin and religion of refugees. Other issues, such sheltering refugee families rather than single people, or decent housing conditions, are more important.

And we found that German citizens were sceptical of sheltering refugees in their vicinity at the time when the country’s Willkommenskultur was being lauded worldwide. Claims about this “welcome culture” were likely to have been exaggerated. Meanwhile, subsequent focus on German people’s concerns about the “refugee crisis” might also have been overrated, because it ignored the strong humanitarian views held by the majority of citizens.

Overall, there was and still is today a mismatch between people’s views, the focus of political debates about refugees and media coverage of these issues.

it's not clear you're pasting a biased article, i first thought they were your words.
 
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