Current Affairs EU In or Out

[tsubaki]

what other nation does Wales have a border with?
or Scotland for that matter?

The Occupied Territories.

 

[TraffordBlue]

what other nation does Wales have a border with?
or Scotland for that matter?

Having read it back, it does mention that it was a "Future of England" survey so I misread that bit, my mistake. But there does seem to be this continuing dig that it is all down to the English that we are leaving the EU, which I can't go along with. Wales also voted to leave so the voters there are just as responsible.

It's also overexaggerated by some that it's all "the Tories" fault, or UKIP voters in places like Stoke and Sunderland. Even though the City of Liverpool voted to remain, many voted to leave. 41.9% equating to 85,000. The Wirral only marginally voted to remain 52%-48%, places like St Helens and Knowsley decided to leave.

My point is that the decision to leave was taken by huge swathes across the whole of the UK population and it's not accurate to just lay the "blame" at the door of convenient easy targets which seems to be quite prevalent in things i've read recently. A very surprising 17.4m contributed to the leave victory with 38% of Scottish voters also providing numbers to the 17.4m.

 

[The binman chronicles]

Having read it back, it does mention that it was a "Future of England" survey so I misread that bit, my mistake. But there does seem to be this continuing dig that it is all down to the English that we are leaving the EU, which I can't go along with. Wales also voted to leave so the voters there are just as responsible.

It's also overexaggerated by some that it's all "the Tories" fault, or UKIP voters in places like Stoke and Sunderland. Even though the City of Liverpool voted to remain, many voted to leave. 41.9% equating to 85,000. The Wirral only marginally voted to remain 52%-48%, places like St Helens and Knowsley decided to leave.

My point is that the decision to leave was taken by huge swathes across the whole of the UK population and it's not accurate to just lay the "blame" at the door of convenient easy targets which seems to be quite prevalent in things i've read recently. A very surprising 17.4m contributed to the leave victory with 38% of Scottish voters also providing numbers to the 17.4m.

Kind of is England's fault though isn't it due to the population disparity. It would have taken all the celtic nations to have voted remain to be in the very high 60's percent wise to change it. By my rough calculations a 70% remain vote in NI, Scotland and Wales means it would have swung the otherway by 117k votes.

Given the EU never had that much support one side or tother was always going to be a big ask. Or put in a more succinct way England had to have a majority vote to remain for it to have any chance of winning.

 

[TraffordBlue]

Kind of is England's fault though isn't it due to the population disparity. It would have taken all the celtic nations to have voted remain to be in the very high 60's percent wise to change it. By my rough calculations a 70% remain vote in NI, Scotland and Wales means it would have swung the otherway by 117k votes.

Given the EU never had that much support one side or tother was always going to be a big ask. Or put in a more succinct way England had to have a majority vote to remain for it to have any chance of winning.

Yeah i'm not disputing that, and don't get me wrong, the Little Englander attitude and the arrogance of many on that side and in Government is embarrassing but just feel some balance should be used.

 

[larrygobfiend]

They probably are scared. Most of today’s 18 year olds have never made a decision of any importance. They are probably more frightened by the thought of trading with the world rather than some cosy and easy deal with the EU. Well it’s time they grew up and put themselves about. They will enjoy it.

I’m more frightened of an EU with an army, led by Brussels and Juncker, picking fights with the Russians over Ukraine.

I’ve no real idea where the deal will end up, my guess would be a complete fudge, but who knows. What I do believe though is that we have nothing to fear but fear itself. We are a pretty good country, with lots of skills and expertise, we will do ok......

Always having a dig at the youth, aren't you Pete?

You want them to make a "decision of importance", but you old farts made sure the most important decision of THEIR generation went the way you wanted it to.

They will "do ok" though...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Every young person I know has nightmares about the prospect of trading with the world tbh. I mean lol

 

[tsubaki]

My point is that the decision to leave was taken by huge swathes across the whole of the UK population and it's not accurate to just lay the "blame" at the door of convenient easy targets which seems to be quite prevalent in things i've read recently. A very surprising 17.4m contributed to the leave victory with 38% of Scottish voters also providing numbers to the 17.4m.

That is true, but then again you have to examine why those people voted to leave.

Was it because they weighed up the pros and cons of the debate or was it because they saw everyone they blame for the state the country is in all on one side?

 

[Khalekan]

Always having a dig at the youth, aren't you Pete?

You want them to make a "decision of importance", but you old farts made sure the most important decision of THEIR generation went the way you wanted it to.

They will "do ok" though...

I wonder hiw many “important” decisions pete made when he was 18.

 

[random]

Not at all. The 2016 referendum determined that Britain should set about negotiating the country’s departure from the EU and we have to respect that democratic decision.

I disagree, the ballot paper read:

'Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union ?'

Not 'should the UK negotiate its departure from the EU'

The vote was simple stay in or leave, the democratic decision was to leave.

After the vote was taken and the decision to leave was made, then the terms of leaving should be negotiated giving the best terms possible that are mutually beneficial to both parties, however those terms must respect the fundamental position that the people decided to leave the EU.

However, the terms on which we leave, and Britain’s future relationship with the EU, were never formulated or put to the public in 2016 and much more information and new facts have come to light about Brexit since then that could never have been known at the time.

We now know that promises made about Brexit, like more £350m a week extra for our NHS and getting a deal with the ‘exact same benefits’, won’t be kept. In fact, if we leave we will have to pay a £40 billion divorce bill in return for a much worse relationship.

There seemed to be a lot of miss-information on both sides of the argument.

The Brexit process is a mess and the negotiations are going badly, which makes it more likely that we will either get a bad deal or worse case no deal.

The public do not know the true state of the negotiations, only what is published, the UK and the EU leaders have to be seen to be 'fighting their own corner' in order to appease their own electorates. For all we know most/all of the terms are already agreed and what we are seeing now is posturing to show how hard it all was and how everyone got the best deal possible.

Given all this, it doesn’t seem right to tell people, as the Government is doing, that the public should just accept without question whatever version of Brexit they come back with.

So if the choice is either a bad deal or no deal, how do you propose the electorate decide on this ?
Another referendum ? 'Should the UK accept this deal or have no deal ?'
how would you vote if given the choice of bad deal or no deal ? (there isn't a 3rd choice of staying in because we already decided to bail)
do we keep going until everyone is happy ? Don't think that'll happen anytime soon.

All of us have a right to say no - this isn't right. If the deal isn't right for the people of the UK, then the people of the UK should have the final say.

The UK was split fairly evenly down the middle, whatever deal is on the table will not be right for everyone. However I seriously doubt we will be walking away without a deal because of the simple fact there is too much money involved for all concerened to not strike an agreement.

The leaders of the countries better get something sorted, I suspect the electorates will not tolerate much more of the 'we know whats best for the peasants' attitude they all seem to have, and that is a sweeping statement about most MP's irrespective of their political party.


TBH I think all this carnage was a combination of Cameron deciding the only way to keep hold of power and not relinquish some to UKIP was to promise the referendum, then going to the EU asking for some consessions only to be shown the door with a collective foot up his backside, the EU and the UK Gov underestimating how hacked off the UK population was with the whole situation, these and other things simply created a perfect storm of discontent.

 

[peteblue]

Always having a dig at the youth, aren't you Pete?

You want them to make a "decision of importance", but you old farts made sure the most important decision of THEIR generation went the way you wanted it to.

They will "do ok" though...

I’m not having a dig at the youth, merely stating that 18 year olds have neither the experience nor background to make these decisions. They are still growing up and developing. If you feel that you would be happy to pass all decisions to 18 year olds only, then be my guest.......

 

[Socrates]

LEAVER: I want an omelette.
REMAINER: Right. It’s just we haven’t got any eggs.
LEAVER: Yes, we have. There they are. [HE POINTS AT A CAKE]
REMAINER: They’re in the cake.
LEAVER: Yes, get them out of the cake, please.
REMAINER: But we voted in 1974 to put them into a cake.
LEAVER: Yes, but that cake has got icing on it. Nobody said there was going to be icing on it.
REMAINER: Icing is good.
LEAVER: And there are raisins in it. I don’t like raisins. Nobody mentioned raisins. I demand another vote.
DAVID CAMERON ENTERS.
DAVID CAMERON: OK.
DAVID CAMERON SCARPERS.
LEAVER: Right, where’s my omelette?
REMAINER: I told you, the eggs are in the cake.
LEAVER: Well, get them out.
EU: It’s our cake.
JEREMY CORBYN: Yes, get them out now.
REMAINER: I have absolutely no idea how to get them out. Don’t you know how to get them out?
LEAVER: Yes! You just get them out and then you make an omelette.
REMAINER: But how?! Didn’t you give this any thought?
LEAVER: Saboteur! You’re talking eggs down. We could make omelettes before the eggs went into the cake, so there’s no reason why we can’t make them now.
THERESA MAY: It’s OK, I can do it.
REMAINER: How?
THERESA MAY: There was a vote to remove the eggs from the cake, and so the eggs will be removed from the cake.
REMAINER: Yeah, but…
LEAVER: Hang on, if we take the eggs out of the cake, does that mean we don’t have any cake? I didn’t say I didn’t want the cake, just the bits I don’t like.
EU: It’s our cake.
REMAINER: But you can’t take the eggs out of the cake and then still have a cake.
LEAVER: You can. I saw the latest Bake Off and you can definitely make cakes without eggs in them. It’s just that they’re horrible.
REMAINER: Fine. Take the eggs out. See what happens.
LEAVER: It’s not my responsibility to take the eggs out. Get on with it.
REMAINER: Why should I have to come up with some long-winded incredibly difficult chemical process to extract eggs that have bonded at the molecular level to the cake, while somehow still having the cake?
LEAVER: You lost, get over it.
THERESA MAY: By the way, I’ve started the clock on this.
REMAINER: So I assume you have a plan?
THERESA MAY: Actually, back in a bit. Just having another election.
REMAINER: Jeremy, are you going to sort this out?
JEREMY CORBYN: Yes. No. Maybe.
EU: It’s our cake.
LEAVER: Where’s my omelette? I voted for an omelette.
REMAINER: This is ridiculous. This is never going to work. We should have another vote, or at least stop what we’re doing until we know how to get the eggs out of the cake while keeping the bits of the cake that we all like.
LEAVER/MAY/CORBYN: WE HAD A VOTE. STOP SABOTAGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. EGGSIT MEANS EGGSIT.
REMAINER: Fine, I’m moving to France. The cakes are nicer there.
LEAVER: You can’t. We’ve taken your freedom of movement.

 

[peteblue]

LEAVER: I want an omelette.
REMAINER: Right. It’s just we haven’t got any eggs.
LEAVER: Yes, we have. There they are. [HE POINTS AT A CAKE]
REMAINER: They’re in the cake.
LEAVER: Yes, get them out of the cake, please.
REMAINER: But we voted in 1974 to put them into a cake.
LEAVER: Yes, but that cake has got icing on it. Nobody said there was going to be icing on it.
REMAINER: Icing is good.
LEAVER: And there are raisins in it. I don’t like raisins. Nobody mentioned raisins. I demand another vote.
DAVID CAMERON ENTERS.
DAVID CAMERON: OK.
DAVID CAMERON SCARPERS.
LEAVER: Right, where’s my omelette?
REMAINER: I told you, the eggs are in the cake.
LEAVER: Well, get them out.
EU: It’s our cake.
JEREMY CORBYN: Yes, get them out now.
REMAINER: I have absolutely no idea how to get them out. Don’t you know how to get them out?
LEAVER: Yes! You just get them out and then you make an omelette.
REMAINER: But how?! Didn’t you give this any thought?
LEAVER: Saboteur! You’re talking eggs down. We could make omelettes before the eggs went into the cake, so there’s no reason why we can’t make them now.
THERESA MAY: It’s OK, I can do it.
REMAINER: How?
THERESA MAY: There was a vote to remove the eggs from the cake, and so the eggs will be removed from the cake.
REMAINER: Yeah, but…
LEAVER: Hang on, if we take the eggs out of the cake, does that mean we don’t have any cake? I didn’t say I didn’t want the cake, just the bits I don’t like.
EU: It’s our cake.
REMAINER: But you can’t take the eggs out of the cake and then still have a cake.
LEAVER: You can. I saw the latest Bake Off and you can definitely make cakes without eggs in them. It’s just that they’re horrible.
REMAINER: Fine. Take the eggs out. See what happens.
LEAVER: It’s not my responsibility to take the eggs out. Get on with it.
REMAINER: Why should I have to come up with some long-winded incredibly difficult chemical process to extract eggs that have bonded at the molecular level to the cake, while somehow still having the cake?
LEAVER: You lost, get over it.
THERESA MAY: By the way, I’ve started the clock on this.
REMAINER: So I assume you have a plan?
THERESA MAY: Actually, back in a bit. Just having another election.
REMAINER: Jeremy, are you going to sort this out?
JEREMY CORBYN: Yes. No. Maybe.
EU: It’s our cake.
LEAVER: Where’s my omelette? I voted for an omelette.
REMAINER: This is ridiculous. This is never going to work. We should have another vote, or at least stop what we’re doing until we know how to get the eggs out of the cake while keeping the bits of the cake that we all like.
LEAVER/MAY/CORBYN: WE HAD A VOTE. STOP SABOTAGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. EGGSIT MEANS EGGSIT.
REMAINER: Fine, I’m moving to France. The cakes are nicer there.
LEAVER: You can’t. We’ve taken your freedom of movement.

I don’t remember Leavers demanding another vote.....

 

[peteblue]

I wonder hiw many “important” decisions pete made when he was 18.

I wonder how many you made, or even understood......

 

[Ruairi77]

LEAVER: I want an omelette.
REMAINER: Right. It’s just we haven’t got any eggs.
LEAVER: Yes, we have. There they are. [HE POINTS AT A CAKE]
REMAINER: They’re in the cake.
LEAVER: Yes, get them out of the cake, please.
REMAINER: But we voted in 1974 to put them into a cake.
LEAVER: Yes, but that cake has got icing on it. Nobody said there was going to be icing on it.
REMAINER: Icing is good.
LEAVER: And there are raisins in it. I don’t like raisins. Nobody mentioned raisins. I demand another vote.
DAVID CAMERON ENTERS.
DAVID CAMERON: OK.
DAVID CAMERON SCARPERS.
LEAVER: Right, where’s my omelette?
REMAINER: I told you, the eggs are in the cake.
LEAVER: Well, get them out.
EU: It’s our cake.
JEREMY CORBYN: Yes, get them out now.
REMAINER: I have absolutely no idea how to get them out. Don’t you know how to get them out?
LEAVER: Yes! You just get them out and then you make an omelette.
REMAINER: But how?! Didn’t you give this any thought?
LEAVER: Saboteur! You’re talking eggs down. We could make omelettes before the eggs went into the cake, so there’s no reason why we can’t make them now.
THERESA MAY: It’s OK, I can do it.
REMAINER: How?
THERESA MAY: There was a vote to remove the eggs from the cake, and so the eggs will be removed from the cake.
REMAINER: Yeah, but…
LEAVER: Hang on, if we take the eggs out of the cake, does that mean we don’t have any cake? I didn’t say I didn’t want the cake, just the bits I don’t like.
EU: It’s our cake.
REMAINER: But you can’t take the eggs out of the cake and then still have a cake.
LEAVER: You can. I saw the latest Bake Off and you can definitely make cakes without eggs in them. It’s just that they’re horrible.
REMAINER: Fine. Take the eggs out. See what happens.
LEAVER: It’s not my responsibility to take the eggs out. Get on with it.
REMAINER: Why should I have to come up with some long-winded incredibly difficult chemical process to extract eggs that have bonded at the molecular level to the cake, while somehow still having the cake?
LEAVER: You lost, get over it.
THERESA MAY: By the way, I’ve started the clock on this.
REMAINER: So I assume you have a plan?
THERESA MAY: Actually, back in a bit. Just having another election.
REMAINER: Jeremy, are you going to sort this out?
JEREMY CORBYN: Yes. No. Maybe.
EU: It’s our cake.
LEAVER: Where’s my omelette? I voted for an omelette.
REMAINER: This is ridiculous. This is never going to work. We should have another vote, or at least stop what we’re doing until we know how to get the eggs out of the cake while keeping the bits of the cake that we all like.
LEAVER/MAY/CORBYN: WE HAD A VOTE. STOP SABOTAGING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE. EGGSIT MEANS EGGSIT.
REMAINER: Fine, I’m moving to France. The cakes are nicer there.
LEAVER: You can’t. We’ve taken your freedom of movement.

yes, but is it a gay cake?

 

[flibbyflob]

On another note here I wonder how many MP's who have stood up calling for a Peoples Vote which we all know is nothing of the sort and is actually a 2nd referendum that are in constituencies that voted by a majority to leave will still be in a job come the next election?

Mentioning no names Anna Soubry cough cough.